General Gun Discussion

[CAP1]

It's funny after all these years to come to the conclusion that a lot of you guys in this thread probably now put me in the pink-skirt-wearing-commie-liberal category because I won't kill someone over the loss of a $15 garden implement.

This must sow confusion amongst my enemies here that have figured all these years that I'm a hard-headed-heartless-conservative-jackaxe-warmonger.

I will close out by posting my view on having to kill someone. I've surely got the necessary guns of all types and the concealed carry permit to get the job done. However, these are the rules I'm going by. Not just because it is the law in my state but because they make sense. To clarify, these are the rules I'd go by even if I lived in Texas. I feel they are reasonable.

My personal code would never allow me to kill someone over the theft of a pot of petunias, a cherry pie, a garden hoe or even a brand new Corvette. I am really amazed at some of the things I've read here.

Someone threatens a life though and I'll do my best to stop that.

no, i personally don't catragorize you that way. you're a person with an opinion, and although i might not agree with it, i do respect your opinions.

but that's just me

<<S>>

[lazs2]

real simple.. if you are not committing a crime and someone who is committing a crime is a threat to you then you need to shoot them... front back or sideways.

I can't make it any more clear than that.    It matters not if it is your house or someone else's...

Only the person who does the shooting can tell us if he was threatened or not.

you have no idea if the two thugs breaking into the house next door in the middle of the night are just there to   steal a "garden implement" or are just hitting the next house in line in their night of killing and pillaging.

Lets just say that the criminals who break into houses these days.. especially the ones who travel in pairs.. are not known for being peace loving and reasonable types.

In the end.. I am not gonna second guess anyones decision on if they were a threat or not.

lazs

[Toad]

you have no idea if the two thugs breaking into the house next door in the middle of the night are just there to   steal a "garden implement" or are just hitting the next house in line in their night of killing and pillaging.

lazs

That's right, you don't. You also don't know if it might be the neighbor's 20 year old and a friend trying to get the key in the lock either.

You can't just start shooting until there IS a threat and one that is life threatening to someone.

In the above scenario I can see myself calling 911, taking an advantageous position and from there confronting the people in question and holding them until the police arrive.

I cannot see myself opening fire without attempting to verify the direct threat to someone's life. I would not, for example, raise the window and start shooting which some in here seem to advocate.

[AAolds]

All depends on the circumstances.  In Horn's case, who knew his neighbor and knew the 2 now deceased crooks were not family or friends of said neighbor.

[Rich46yo]

We dont kill people without just reason cause we are better then that. We are better then the scum out there killing, raping, robbing...ect

We dont play Judge and jury cause that's the first step towards tyranny. Govt. tyranny or Mob tyranny. Whats the difference?

It wasnt home invasion cause nobody was home and the shooter knew it.

The Police cant shoot people in the back over a property crime. So why would you think a neighbor can? And if a citizen cant then the Police have no business thinking they can.

I blame these nitwit politicians and the spineless way we have handled the problem of illegal immigration, most of all by the selfish way Liberal Politicians have. Theres a lot of anger in our border states with this invasion from the south, and a lot of it justified. Your going to see a lot more of this in future years.

People are fed up and I dont blame them.

[indy007]

That's right, you don't. You also don't know if it might be the neighbor's 20 year old and a friend trying to get the key in the lock either.

You can't just start shooting until there IS a threat and one that is life threatening to someone.

In the above scenario I can see myself calling 911, taking an advantageous position and from there confronting the people in question and holding them until the police arrive.

I cannot see myself opening fire without attempting to verify the direct threat to someone's life. I would not, for example, raise the window and start shooting which some in here seem to advocate.

You can't hold them if they just takeoff running. You'd need a taser, which is not a substitute for a gun. Trying to subdue and restrain someone is possible, 1 on 1, provided you have sufficient training... but you don't know if they're armed or not. Fighting 1 on 2 is out of the question and a recipe for disaster.

Now here's where the fun part of Texas law comes in. I'll use my recent example. A guy plowed into my 4Runner and was quick to run off down the street...

Option 1: Jumping on his back and choking him unconscious. Rear naked choke = lateral vascular restraint, cuts off the blood flow, you go out in a few seconds.
Option 2: Taking the guy to the ground, mounting, dropping fists and elbows, and switching to an armbar. Armbars dislocate elbows and tear tendons.
Option 3: Pulling out my pistol and shooting him.
Option 4: Stand there like an idiot and hope the cops show up quickly.

Option 1, legal. Cops will let you skip and dance away, but it's a gamble because you don't know wtf he may be armed with. I'm told getting stabbed sucks pretty bad.
Option 2, illegal. You go to jail with the guy and get strip-searched.
Option 3, illegal. You go to jail, guy goes to morgue, you get strip-searched, Quannel X protests in your neighborhood.
Option 4, legal. However, I've had response times between 1 minute and 3 hours. It's a roll of the dice.

Now, option 3 becomes perfectly legal if the guy does something as simple as turning around and reaching into his pocket. You don't know what he has. The only safe option is to open up on him.



Now, back to the original situation, looking from a criminals perspective... I'm gonna run from you. I'm not gonna stick around and be arrested. On top of that, I know you have guns. I know everybody leaves their home at some point. I know exactly who to rob soon, because guns sell very, very well.

[Carrel]

Toad, you are wrong and if you were my neighbor ......well lets just say you wouldn't want to live near me too long. Us folks in the country do things a little bit different. We lookout for and help are neighbors because it's just common respect and descenticy. The crimials in this case have no respect for someones home and probably the lives in that home. Nor would they have any for you or yours.
Too many people in this country turn the other way when dope dealers are pushing their drugs to our kids or stealing us blind, because they "don't want to get involved". You sir are part of the problem. If you sat and watched as my home get invaded and did nothing, I'd replace my stuff with your stuff the very second you left for work.And crap in the sink on the way out.

He never said he'd "do nothing-" FWIW I live in the country too, and if I saw someone ripping off my neighbor I'd call 911, try to get his license number, maybe park my truck to block his exit (I've done that before- I had some kid that was trying to rip off a neighbor's lawnmower beg me to let him go before the cops showed up)- but I WOULD NOT execute your burgular for you...Can't do it. And even if I did nothing at all- say, we've met at the mailboxes and I think you're a clown, maybe I'm old and fearful of retribution, whatever-if you believe that would give you license to rip ME off, and I found out it was you that did it, then you are right about one thing- I wouldn't want to live next to you- you'd have to go.

[Motherland]

Whether thieves are worthless scum or not, what he did was extremely irresponsible and the kind of crap that gives gun owners a bad name, and may end up getting guns either banned or heavily regulated in the United States.

[AAolds]

Motherland, the firearms industry is as regulated as it can be already.  Every new legal tactic gets tried on the guns first.  I sell them and deal with the regulations daily.  Living in IL, I also get a nice dose of local level gun legislation along with the federal rules.  As for banning guns...........

....... the US population will be noticably less when guns here are successfully banned.

[Toad]

You can't hold them if they just takeoff running.

If they take off running, it would be very rare that I could reasonably believe deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to my person or a third person. Therefore, I'm not shooting a person running away in 99.9% of the situations.

[Wolf14]

you have no idea if the two thugs breaking into the house next door in the middle of the night are just there to   steal a "garden implement" or are just hitting the next house in line in their night of killing and pillaging.

Lets just say that the criminals who break into houses these days.. especially the ones who travel in pairs.. are not known for being peace loving and reasonable types.

Bravo...Bravo.....very well put good chap!

<<Clappy, Clappy>>

 

[Shamus]

Toad, you just aint a real man.....ya librule!!!!!

shamus

[Toad]

On top of that, I know you have guns. I know everybody leaves their home at some point. I know exactly who to rob soon, because guns sell very, very well.

I missed that bit. I like it though.

When you come back to rob me of my firearms bring a friend. I'll even tell you where they all are located. All but two of them are in one of a pair of 500 pound Cannon safes, bolted from the inside to a concrete floor. Just pick that puppy up, toss her on your back and skedaddle down the driveway.

The other two.. well, one will be on my person and the other will be on my wife's person, both concealed, both loaded.

Y'all come back now, hear? 

[Toad]

Toad, you just aint a real man.....ya librule!!!!!

shamus

Nope, yer right. Since I realized I won't kill a man over my neighbor's garden hoe, I've decided to go the whole route. I'm checking on what it takes to have a sex change operation and then re-register as a Democrat. 

[bustr]

Nobody is saying you cant protect yourself. But you know that and since you lack facts and a moral leg to stand on your going to go on an emotional babble instead. I suspect if these two were local white kids that just made a mistake, and were executed, you'd all feel different.

Rich I'm white and I live in Oakland California. God knows it would be nice if it were two white kids in this city doing break ins. This being california and Oaktown and me being white, my runins with the locals over the years have required a great deal of finess not to go to jail for being white, conservitive and christian when the dust setteled. Pre judged racist for being under the influence of whiteness and suspected bootleger of conservitism......

Sure I wish california and Oakland had laws exactly like Texas. Just like Texas the majority of our crime seems to be commited by a majority of a minority who don't give a watermelon about yours or my morality. And emotional babble, LEO's dont have a corner in this country on living through dangerous people encounters. There are more citizens than LEO's by 400 million to 1 million. Our private encounters don't make it to the news, or COP shows, or on COP cams. The ratio of us to LEO supports alot of crime and citizen encounters which go undocumented.

Thank God in Texas they voted a solution to theirs.......