What's with the uber maneuvers?

[uptown]

film at 11:00

[bobtom]

The film will never come. 

[moot]

Animl -  No one gives a crap what's gotten your 48 year old panties in a knot, or if "your chart" is the new "score" everyone's supposed to rank high on... It's starting to sound like you're senile early.  Where's the films? 

[SlapShot]

ill make a 109 turn so sharp you will think its a a6m.

For some strange reason ... I don't think I will ... 

[Yknurd]

I have much respect for Skyrock, he's a good guy, but that's funny! 

Shhh.  Don't tell anyone, but he's okay in my book too.

I just like to give him a hard time.  He makes it easy.

[Husky01]

Film.....

[Bronk]

Film.....

Never going to happen.

[Agent360]

Well, I don't think Agents post has anything to do with what I have seen.  I am just trying to explain what I have seen and what the cause may be.  I've dueled Agent many times and to be honest, I have not seen him pull anything like that.  Maybe the opportunity was not there, but in any case, I do seem to get confused on the vert at slow speeds about if the guy is going or coming.  Is that really related to anything Agent said or anything anyone else said for that matter.  It is just my opinion about my experiences.  (I think the right think to do is to roll my eyes now?  )

ummmm. ummmmm. Perhaps you are a little confused.

It has absolutly everything to do with it. I have heard this same thing from newer players and rookie 109 drivers many, many times. I had the very same reaction and questions when I had it done to me.

He did not say it happend to HIM (Animl) in any other plane. He specifically stated it was in a "109". I am describing the move "a 109 does" because that is the specific plane he said "did it mulitple times" to him. When it happens in a more oblique angle one can see the plane turn and one sais to himself "he is  stall turning" Oh sht. It's obvious in this case.

If the same move is done a lot more vertilce and at a distance of over 400 the plane can appear to magically swap ends. If you have a laggy or slower graphics problem then you might miss some frames and it "appears" as though its an "exploit" of some kind. If any film exists of this UFO experience then the film will show the actual maneuver in progress even if it appeared to the viewer as something else because the DATA is being recorded and not the rendered frames at the time of play.

To be honest, what Agent described sounds like a death wish

LOLOLOL ----it's just a simple hammerhead...doh...  : but modified to shoot a moving target instead of a "scripted judged move"
I tried to "describe" how to do the move in a documentary fashion. You fly the 109 all the time...corret? You do it all the time. You have done it to me in our many many duals. How can you say its a death wish. I guess you don't relize you are doing when you do it.

I am making a film about this. Turns out it is a lot harder to show in a teaching way than to actually do it against a real fight in the MA or DA. To perform it as an "aerobatical move" by calling out the flight controls and performing it perfectly is a lot harder than I thought.

The "sledgehammer" as I am going to call it...can be done in most planes. It is just a matter how much stall control you can fly with in that plane and most importantly how much tork you get out of your engine.

If anyone has any film of this kind of thing happening to them especially if you got killed by it PLEASE send me the film so I can include it in my upcoming write up about this topic. Send to "troyward@cox.net"

Agent360

[Gianlupo]

Agent, if you need a sparring partner to stage that move in actual combat, feel free to enlist me.

[mechanic]

Tork = Torque

 

[dedalos]

Agent, I did not mean it in a bad way.  What you describe has nothing to do with what I am describing simply because it is something I have seen and not you.  I can tell the difference between a hammer head and what I described.  When I see a hammer head, I see a hammer head.  When I see someone coming head on while I thought he was going the other way, well, I did not see a hammer head.  I still think its a visual thing and not a magic move.  If you say I have done it, I have no way of knowing what it looked like on your end, but most likely I snap rolled/stalled at the top and torque turned me around.  The question is, did you see me flipping around or not.  I am talking about not seeing the move and not how the move is performed.  That is why what you described has nothing to do with what  I am talking about.  Its a question of seeing a move and not how it was done (to me at list). 

[TequilaChaser]

Good to see ya back around, Animl!

Agent360  had some great detailed posts,  dedalos and Shane on the 2nd page of this thread summed it up pretty good.......

Animl, find the films, if you want to have any credibility around here, since most think you are some new beginner.....

and anytime ya see me online, Animl, give me a shout and I'll go to the DA  or TA with ya to help you knock all that rust off......

fellow AH'ers  Animl is a Good Fella....he been in flight sims a lot longer than most and probably before 1/2 these players today were born ( joking )...he just been out of play for a good long while......  give him some time to adjust......

( don't forget...... post the films     )

( you would classify Animl,to the likes of Spatula, Dok, Brooke,  Fencer, Murdr, Hammer, Widewing, Badboy, Rolex...etc...... in how he carried himself and how much effort he put into helping the fellow flight sim community....... I think some misdjudged his opening post, and to add he may have exagerated a lil much about certian other game players ......it  all plays  )

[2bighorn]

Yeah, it happens sometimes at certain distances (over 500-600yds), if reversal is done tightly and quickly. Could be position update frequency coupled with frame sync.

[evenhaim]

Yeah, it happens sometimes at certain distances (over 500-600yds), if reversal is done tightly and quickly. Could be position update frequency coupled with frame sync.

barby pm heading your way.

[Agent360]

Yeah, it happens sometimes at certain distances (over 500-600yds), if reversal is done tightly and quickly. Could be position update frequency coupled with frame sync.

Dedalos - This is what I was saying as well in my last post. And like you I have seen the very same thing Just as you describe. But I believe what animl was seeing is the classic 109 vert reversal. At d600 or even d400 if you take ur eyes off the plane even for a blink or it passes through your canopy frame or you loose the up look for a second the next time you see the target its coming at you.

For me it took I think at least 6 months of constant playing to even tell that a plane was turing out that far. I just couldnt tell if the plane was rolling, turning or diving. I good example of this is going vert with a plane in front of me at d600 or d800 and they split S at the top. I couldnt tell the plane had rolled over and pulled down. It looked like he just dived again to me. Then all the sudden the nose is coming around right at me. It took some time to get used to looking at a little bitty image of a plane and telling what it was doing. Now I just kinda know based on speed and the initial move that brought us up.

I am sure animl did see a plane just UFO reverse. I just think it is either because he lost sight for a fraction of a sec or he is just not picking up on the stall turn until its too late and the nose is already coming his way. OR the plane still did the reverse but he didnt see all the frames either from packet loss, lag or slow graphics card.

Its just interesting he singled out a 109 and not any other planes. And the fact that it was happening over and over. If he had lag problems or other issues then he would have seen a lot more wierd UFO stuff like getting a warp to his six.

I sure wish animl would post the film or contact me so I can do it for him.

Animl go to this on your computer:
program files/HTC/Aces High II/films
Sort all the films by date. Take all the ones dated the day or day before your post and save them to another folder somewhere. If you can make them into a zip file that would be great. If not attach them all to an email and send it too me. Of if there are alot of them just send like 5 or so per email. Send to "troyward@cox.net". IF we have the films we can have a respectable converstation about them and perhaps we will all learn something.

PLEASE send me the films.