Hans-Joachim Marseille

[Anaxogoras]

You've got to like a pilot who breaks formation in a training flight to land on a road and take a leak in front of a very surprised farmer...

I don't think Marseille is over-looked though, as German aces go he is one of the better known ones. Of course, the American general public doesnt' know much about Luftwaffe pilots...heck, most of them have never heard of the 56th FG! And the insipid propaganda machine being what it is, much of the hoi polloi probably considers the Luftwaffe pilots morally and millitarily equivalent to concentration camp guards. 

Ummmm...  Don't you think this is taking things a bit too far?  And in a direction we don't want to go?  From a strategic bird's eye point of view, the entire east front invasion is difficult to separate from the atrocities that occurred.  I think a lot of the regular army/airforce who participated didn't know that at first, or deceived themselves about it, and once they were there it became a fight to save the guy next to you no matter the bigger picture.  It's much easier to look at Africa and western Europe and say that it was mostly a military engagement.

Read this man's book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raul_Hilberg#The_Destruction_of_the_European_Jews, which was alternately criticized as anti-german and anti-jewish, so you know it must be good!

[dedalos]

MG 151 + 2 x MG 17 or MG 151/20 + 2 x MG 17

"Marseille "worked" alone in combat keeping his wingman at a safe distance so he would not collide or fire on him in error."

What?  You mean they could kill with their MGs too back then? 

[Motherland]

Watching those videos re-motivated me to work on this...

[Gianlupo]

Wow! That's telepathy, Bubi!

Just yesterday evening I downloaded the Sky Unlimited Bf-109F pack for FS 2004 (now available for free) and, watching the various Marseille's skin for the trop version, I thought we needed the last one he brought in air in an F4 (beside Krusty's great one that we already have, that is. )

Great job, now just put the markings on the rudder!

[bcadoo]

He didn't win everytime:

"However on 23 April Marseille himself was shot down during his third sortie of that day by Sous-Lieutenant James Denis, a Free French pilot with No. 73 Squadron RAF, flying a Hawker Hurricane. Marseille's Bf 109 received almost 30 hits in the cockpit area, and three or four shattered the canopy. As Marseille was leaning forward the rounds missed him by inches. Marseille managed to crash-land his fighter"

[Krusty]

Bucky, again you've got a grudge and it shows. You're equating one man's on-TV interview 60 years after the fact against period-era official loss reports of allied forces listing which planes they lost and when, compared against LW kill reports for which planes were killed and when?

You sir, are a buffoon.

P.S. Do your own work. It's been discussed on these forums dozens of times. It's called a search button. Several folks have already done all the groundwork for you. Look for their threads.

[Bucky73]

I don't have a grudge at all.....I could care less what some internet "expert" thinks about me or what I believe.  However, what I can't stand is someone that puts people down because this person doesn't believe what they believe. It is becoming obvious to me that you don't know jack... You just make it up as you go. You STILL haven't shown me ANY reference. You spout off about not having proof yet, you don't yourself. "look it up"....Here's an idea, why don't you? Don't answer that because I already know why.

Practice what you preach is all I'm saying

I have a 12 year old daughter that thinks she knows everything also.....

but in fact she doesn't

[Motherland]

He didn't win everytime:

"However on 23 April Marseille himself was shot down during his third sortie of that day by Sous-Lieutenant James Denis, a Free French pilot with No. 73 Squadron RAF, flying a Hawker Hurricane. Marseille's Bf 109 received almost 30 hits in the cockpit area, and three or four shattered the canopy. As Marseille was leaning forward the rounds missed him by inches. Marseille managed to crash-land his fighter"

Thats actually quite amazing. Most Luftwaffe aces were shot down many times. Hartmann was forced to ditch his 109 a total of 14 times IIRC.

[Sloehand]

I also think that it was a bit problematic for record keeping that they tried to have a reliable record of how many planes and other stuff the enemy had lost and at the same time the Nazi propaganda engine wanted big numbers that would look good in news reel.

-C+

As a general rule, military records were not for public access or consumption by any side, at any time, during the war.  Nazi propagandists had access of course, and used them where it suited them in 'creating' whatever numbers they wanted.  It is also certain (and we like to think to a much lesser degree) that the Allies' propagandists did the same thing as an issue of keeping up morale.

[evenhaim]

Motherland i thought we already had marseille's skin...

[Motherland]

Motherland i thought we already had marseille's skin...

Krusty did one. Marseille had more than one paint job, of course. On Krusty's the RLM78 (light blue) comes about midway up the fuselage, on mine it's only on the bottom of the wings and the 'chin'.
I wanted to do his G1 but I could never find any pictures of it.

[Gianlupo]

Motherland i thought we already had marseille's skin...

I wonder why no one ever reads my posts......

It was a G2, Motherland and, yep, never saw any picture/drawing of it.