Hans-Joachim Marseille

[Yenny]

"Hans Joachim Marseille, a young German fighter pilot, was the most amazing, unique, and lethal ace of World War 2. A non-conformist and brilliant innovator, he developed his own personal training program and combat tactics, and achieved amazing results, including 17 victories in one day, and an average lethality ratio of just 15 gun rounds per victory. Marseille was described by Adolf Galland, the most senior German ace, with these words : "He was the unrivaled virtuoso among the fighter pilots of World War 2. His achievements were previously considered impossible.""

The most successful fighter pilot of all times. Not many people know of his success because he didn't survive the war. He had an amazing record of 150 victories in 6 months. Erich Hartmann had 352 but that was over 4 years. I remember reading a book about him when I was 10 or so. I knew he was the star of the Africa campaign, but I couldn't remember his name until today when I asked some other AH players. I like to share with you all the legend of Hans-Joachim Marseille, and may his legend live on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2gHQGqKnGg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7k1ilpbOUk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QHnPk6TrjA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RXU7C4paPU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvOE_ROg1RI&feature=related

[dhyran]

the best ever

<S>

[Hajo]

The Star of Afrika

[Stampf]

Mastered the high angle frontal deflection.

<S> HJM.

[Cthulhu]

the best ever

<S>

Agreed. This guy was amazing. Can't picture any other 109F other than his. Given his tactics, it's amazing he never collided with anyone.

[Domin]

"Hans Joachim Marseille, a young German fighter pilot, was the most amazing, unique, and lethal ace of World War 2. A non-conformist and brilliant innovator, he developed his own personal training program and combat tactics, and achieved amazing results, including 17 victories in one day, and an average lethality ratio of just 15 gun rounds per victory. Marseille was described by Adolf Galland, the most senior German ace, with these words : "He was the unrivaled virtuoso among the fighter pilots of World War 2. His achievements were previously considered impossible.""

The most successful fighter pilot of all times. Not many people know of his success because he didn't survive the war. He had an amazing record of 150 victories in 6 months. Erich Hartmann had 352 but that was over 4 years. I remember reading a book about him when I was 10 or so. I knew he was the star of the Africa campaign, but I couldn't remember his name until today when I asked some other AH players. I like to share with you all the legend of Hans-Joachim Marseille, and may his legend live on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2gHQGqKnGg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7k1ilpbOUk&amp;feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QHnPk6TrjA&amp;feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RXU7C4paPU&amp;feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvOE_ROg1RI&amp;feature=related

"Hartmann flew his first combat mission on 14 October 1942 as a wingman of Paule Rossmann"

[Adonai]

I remember reading somewhere its on wikipedia so not sure if its exactly accurate based on a webfind:

"Marseille attacked alone a formation of 16 Curtiss P-40 fighters and shot down six aircraft of No. 5 Squadron SAAF, five of them in six minutes, including three aces: Robin Pare (six victories), Douglas Golding (6.5 victories) and Andre Botha (five victories). His wingman Rainer Pöttgen, nicknamed Fliegendes Zählwerk the ("Flying Counting Machine"),[35] said of this fight:
All the enemy were shot down by Marseille in a turning dogfight. As soon as he shot, he needed only to glance at the enemy plane. His pattern [of gunfire] began at the front, the engine's nose, and consistently ended in the cockpit. How he was able to do this not even he could explain. With every dogfight he would throttle back as far as possible; this enabled him to fly tighter turns. His expenditure of ammunition in this air battle was 360 rounds (60 per kill)."

Whether this is correct or not, this is one amazing fate to pull off, especially as the conditions apply him alone vs that many.

[Motherland]

I remember reading somewhere its on wikipedia so not sure if its exactly accurate based on a webfind:

"Marseille attacked alone a formation of 16 Curtiss P-40 fighters and shot down six aircraft of No. 5 Squadron SAAF, five of them in six minutes, including three aces: Robin Pare (six victories), Douglas Golding (6.5 victories) and Andre Botha (five victories). His wingman Rainer Pöttgen, nicknamed Fliegendes Zählwerk the ("Flying Counting Machine"),[35] said of this fight:
All the enemy were shot down by Marseille in a turning dogfight. As soon as he shot, he needed only to glance at the enemy plane. His pattern [of gunfire] began at the front, the engine's nose, and consistently ended in the cockpit. How he was able to do this not even he could explain. With every dogfight he would throttle back as far as possible; this enabled him to fly tighter turns. His expenditure of ammunition in this air battle was 360 rounds (60 per kill)."

Whether this is correct or not, this is one amazing fate to pull off, especially as the conditions apply him alone vs that many.

One of the interviewees in Yenny's videos also state that he used landing flaps to turn tighter.

Does anyone know any books I can find about him that won't cost $100 because they're out of print?

[Adonai]

Im wondering if any of his flying was written up as propaganda or actual facts?

[Motherland]

Im wondering if any of his flying was written up as propaganda or actual facts?

I would be fairly comfortable saying that anything coming from a German pilot is not propaganda, especially post war.

[dedalos]

I remember reading somewhere its on wikipedia so not sure if its exactly accurate based on a webfind:

"Marseille attacked alone a formation of 16 Curtiss P-40 fighters and shot down six aircraft of No. 5 Squadron SAAF, five of them in six minutes, including three aces: Robin Pare (six victories), Douglas Golding (6.5 victories) and Andre Botha (five victories). His wingman Rainer Pöttgen, nicknamed Fliegendes Zählwerk the ("Flying Counting Machine"),[35] said of this fight:
All the enemy were shot down by Marseille in a turning dogfight. As soon as he shot, he needed only to glance at the enemy plane. His pattern [of gunfire] began at the front, the engine's nose, and consistently ended in the cockpit. How he was able to do this not even he could explain. With every dogfight he would throttle back as far as possible; this enabled him to fly tighter turns. His expenditure of ammunition in this air battle was 360 rounds (60 per kill)."

Whether this is correct or not, this is one amazing fate to pull off, especially as the conditions apply him alone vs that many.

109F used 360 rounds (indicating he had more left?)  Alone, but wingman is describing the fight.  What am I missing here?

[Adonai]

109F used 360 rounds (indicating he had more left?)  Alone, but wingman is describing the fight.  What am I missing here?

That's exactly what im trying to find more sources on, He attacked alone but a wingman watched? I don't get that as wingmen ALWAYS follow the lead, 360 rounds, im curious what an average burst of 60 rounds would be, 8mm and 20mm wise.

Edited:

Its not uncommon to have a pilot standout as an excellent shot, I've read over years some pilots having amazing accuracy, where others had horrible aim at best. Richard bong a prime example - his gunnery was pretty poor, and pilots like Werner Voss during world war 1 would target engines of the enemy aircraft to maximize damage and use less ammo count.

[Gianlupo]

Nice pages about Jochen:

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/hanstate.html

http://www.2worldwar2.com/marseille.htm

Book: Kurowsky's biography; Tate's biography should be good, too, but it's unavailable.

Adonai, Ded, in the second page I posted (IIRC), you'll find that Marseille always preferred to attack alone, because he thought that a single attacker was more difficult to spot in the desert air, for the enemy formations. His wingman/men always waited above him, signaling any enemy attack.

[Rich46yo]

I would be fairly comfortable saying that anything coming from a German pilot is not propaganda, especially post war.

Actually the German military was funny in this way. They never massaged statistics, not any of the services. Some of the most worthwhile records of the war are the German ones. They kept an intact and professional Bureaucracy during the war in both civilian and military service. Actually this is what sunk many of them later at Nuremberg. Ever been to Germany? As a people they are very precise and accurate about keeping records. I'd probably believe their records on the war even before I believed our own.

I believe these Luftwaffe records.

[Adonai]

I didn't realize rich, your correct on german aircraft keeping accurate records - however I didn't realize germans as a whole kept such good records. I just had the idea between propaganda and edited records come to mind.

Then again I live in USA where every news station pumps out its own propaganda (CNN prime example)