Great arena caps

[SlapShot]

That does come off wierd sounding "read the through some". Meant to say "read through some"

Wow 6000+ posts. You must be one of the guys who thinks anyone who posts here must have your little seal of approval or something huh?  Waiting for others to show up and say things like "waiting for xxxxxx to get here and make his post" and things like that. Typical. 

My idea was to open the orange and blue up to 350 each. Keep them like this at least until the beginning of peak time. Just try it out for a week at least. Doesn't seem like there could be any harm in trying it no?Bla bla bla. I kind of like the idea of both blue and orange being mirrors of each other as far as the maps go. Be it a large or small map the fight right now is right in the center on the blue arena. Just gets really boring looking for a fight in the blue with 13 people and half are playing ground war. Are you still reading this?  If this idea is not good enough than please let's see if there's something we can maybe come up with. This wasn't meant to be a whine post. If saying something isn't right and here's the reasons why makes you feel like it's a whine please don't even bother posting back here. You are far too serious like a karaoke singer in a costume if that's the case. Would simply like to see the arenas open more like the others. Are you going to read through the whole post or make assumptions? Would not like to just post  why can't i get into that arena? Looking for a good reason to bring to HTC that might make things a bit better. Love the game, not too many things bug me about it except simply getting to where the good fight is going to be. Did you make it through the whole thing?   

6000+ post ... yes ... when you have played this game for 6+ years and participated on the  BBS for 6+ years, you might achieve those numbers.

Get my "little seal of approval" ... maybe you should spend some time reading some of my posts on various threads before you make some character assumptions. I did not (and could of) use the ... "well your a noob and have absolutely no clue as to what you are talking about. Typical" ... character assumption in reference to you and this thread ... but I didn't. Trying to make a point thru character assassination is a sign of weakness when debating a topic.

Had you been around when "balancing" came to be, you would have read and participated in the original thread that heatedly discussed this very topic with HiTech (HTC) which resulted in what we have now.

Also, had you been around long enough you would have seen the numerous posts/threads similar to yours that are posted as a result of someone getting pissed because they couldn't get into the arena that they wanted to fly in due to the balancing restrictions. Has you read all those threads, you would have seen the numerous (and repetitive) ideas that have been brought forth ... just like the one you have suggested here ... and then you might have thought twice when prompted to create this thread. The tact that I took at the onset of this thread was due to the fact that many people come in here and complain ... but never come forth with a solution to that complaint ... they just simply complain.

I am a software programmer and I had a boss many years ago set me straight ...

I came into his office and said ... "This program is broke !!!"

He then said ... "Is that all you have to say ?"

I replied ... "yup"

He said ... "Get the flock out of my office and don't ever come in here again and tell me something is wrong/broken without also telling what possible solution you may have to fix what is wrong/broken".

To this very day, I never say something is wrong/broken, without also having a possible solution. It's ok to complain, but if your going to complain, then have a solution for your complaint at the same time.

Do you even understand the conditions that caused the problem that you ran into ?

Just prior to you logging in and trying to get into the Orange arena, the Blue arena was reset. When the reset occurred, it emptied the Blue arena, causing the "cap" on the Orange arena to drop like a rock. That is why you saw numbers like 250/100 in Orange and 13/100 in Blue. Blue was at the beginning stages of building it's population after the reset ... hence the very low number.

I went to the Blue arena, after reading your original post, and the numbers climbed at a fast rate, and before you knew it, there were over 80 people flying in the Blue arena. I found an area (I was on as a Knight) that I could find constant fights. Had you been patient, you would have been able to fly in a moderately populated Blue arena and had you waited a little longer, as the Blue arena increased its population, you would have been able to join the Orange arena.

"If saying something isn't right and here's the reasons why makes you feel like it's a whine please don't even bother posting back here."

Say what you want ... but when you post in a public forum your gonna get various reactions ... such is life on a BBS.

For some reason you are accusing me of "flaming" ... show me a post, in this thread, where I "flamed".

Looking for a good reason to bring to HTC that might make things a bit better.

This notion/idea has been hashed every which way imaginable (with HiTech and crew) and thru that hashing, HiTech coaded what we now see. This topic is probably the most debated and heated topic in the last 2 years and every proposal that has been brought forth has had all sorts of holes shot thru it by HiTech himself. I don't believe that we will ever see a change until "Combat Tour" is released and the numbers in the LW arenas drop due to an exodus by pilots that will fly in CT only ... and even then ... it may never change.

[dedalos]

So instead we should not come up with some ideas to change it? Just let things sit as they are? Not that great of an idea since the amount of time i can play is limited and would like to be able to go into any arena whenever I can get a moment to play the game I pay to play no? I'm sure I'm not the only one. Just thinking we as a group can come up with some ideas for settings instead of caps at 100

Get it yet?  The only thing we do well as a group is shutting down and make fun of people asking for anything to change.  Things have been and always will be perfect in this game.  Even when they change from perfect to well, perfect 

[Hap]

Dedalos, so true.  There's the changers and the status quo'ers.  I've been on both sides (not at once) over the years depending on the matter at hand.

[Ghastly]

OK ... please ... gives us your fair and equitable way to balance the arenas.

One way would be to only have one Late War Arena until the number's reach a certain number after a certain time of day- then a second arena is started, it's state is set to exactly the same state as the primary arena, and then 1/2 the people from each country in the primary arena are randomly switched into the second arena - simply disappearing from the primary and reappearing exactly as they were in the secondary.  From that point on, each person who enters Late War is dropped into the late war arena that has the lowest number of players automatically.  When the numbers drop below a certain amount after another time of day,  one of the two arena's is randomly chosen to become the primary, and everyone who is flying/GVing etc in the other arena is switched into the primary arena, magically reappearing.


I won't say it's a good idea, or one that should be implemented - only that it would be one absolutely fair and equitable way to do so.

<S>

[SlapShot]

One way would be to only have one Late War Arena until the number's reach a certain number after a certain time of day- then a second arena is started, it's state is set to exactly the same state as the primary arena, and then 1/2 the people from each country in the primary arena are randomly switched into the second arena - simply disappearing from the primary and reappearing exactly as they were in the secondary.  From that point on, each person who enters Late War is dropped into the late war arena that has the lowest number of players automatically.  When the numbers drop below a certain amount after another time of day,  one of the two arena's is randomly chosen to become the primary, and everyone who is flying/GVing etc in the other arena is switched into the primary arena, magically reappearing.


I won't say it's a good idea, or one that should be implemented - only that it would be one absolutely fair and equitable way to do so.

<S>

It would be absolutely fair ... in a balancing sense ... but the screams when someone is whisked from one arena (without their buddies and/or squadies) to another arena ... would be deafening and would be worse than the current screams.

[Ghastly]

It would be absolutely fair ... in a balancing sense ... but the screams when someone is whisked from one arena (without their buddies and/or squadies) to another arena ... would be deafening and would be worse than the current screams.

Agreed - I didn't say it would be better, only that it would be "fair and equitable". 

I have no beef with the current system, although I'd recommend one (possibly two) changes. 

The first change would if a player has been been in the arena for period of time greater than an "expiration period" of 3 to 5 minutes, the host server would hold a "slot" for the player in the arena they'd been playing in for the expiration period after he or she leaves unless he or she enters another arena, rather than "freeing" the slot immediately to allow a(nother) player to potentially enter. This way, if a player discoed or had to exit the program to reset something, they'd be able to re-enter the arena they'd already been playing in.

To prevent gaming of the reservation system, the player with a reservation would continue to be counted toward the arena total during the reservation period - otherwise you'd have groups of guys jumping off so that they could free up slot(s) for buddy(s), and then signing back in before their own reservation expired.  The reason that you'd only keep a reservation for a player if the player had been in the arena for longer than the reservation period when he/she left (and didn't enter another arena) would be to eliminate gaming the cap system by guys who would jump from arena to arena just to affect the caps so that they could free up slot(s) for buddy(s) in the prefered arena, and then return to the prefered arena via their own reservation.

The second change I'd contemplate would be to implement a queue, so that if the a person really wanted to enter a particular arena, they could choose to do so, and wait.  However, if I were to implement a queue, rather than automatically dropping the player into the arena when their turn came, I'd prompt them at the point where a slot opened up, and if they didn't respond to the prompt in a timely manner (say 30 seconds or so), I'd pass them over and offer it to the next waiting player.  This way, the guy who starts the game and selects the queue for a particular server in anticipation of flying sometime later would at least have to monitor the queue in order to enter the arena, rather than starting it and leaving for an hour or two and coming back later. I'd leave the player who failed to respond next in line for the next available slot though, so that 2 second "honeydo" or a trip to the lavatory wouldn't render who knows how long of waiting completely pointless)

Like I said, I don't usually have a problem with flying in whichever arena is available since the squad's I fly with tend to fly in the lower capped arena as a matter of course, and I don't (tend to) disco.  But I have squadmates that are on dial-up, and discoing is a fact of life.  And there are certain maps I'd actually prefer to sit in a queue for the other arena rather than fly...

<S>

[Castedo]

.

[stodd]

So then what happens to the 251st through 263rd players? You still wind up with one full arena, and one nearly empty arena, with those guys coming in here and posting the exact same things you're posting now.

Wouldnt be as much of it?

[Kazaa]

I know this has been posted before but this has to get fixed or figured out. When it's 4pm est and theres 253/100 in LWO and 13/100 in blue there's not exactly any balancing going on. 13 people in a map that size in blue meanwhile everyone is on the ground playing beachhead2000 doesn't really look too good of a time to go in there. The green has 11/350, purple has 15/350dueling is at 18/200, ava is at 0/200.  We can't get a 350 cap on orange throughout the day at all like the others? We have to keep paying to get a busy signal on the areas we want to go in? Guys really we can come up with some kind of solution for this no? Why the 2 mostly used arenas with the bottle caps on them?
James

What we need is one big late war main again.

[Mustaine]

What we need is one big late war main again.

This might have been stated by someone else in the thread (what you said Kazaa) but I am just choosing this as a starting point. I am not going after you Kazaa, I am not after anyone.


I don't play any other online games. I do read and keep up a bit with what is going on in them to understand the mentality a bit hopefully.

Has anyone considered that HiTechCreations as a company is in a transitional period in the "MMORPG" genera? It almost seems to me that they are in a pickle. Complicated skill based game play VS. shoot 'em up "gameboy" fun. I heard that one of those other online games (not WoW I forget which one) has something like 1,000 servers with like 10,000 capacity on each. Consider other mainstream MMORPG's have corporate backing, millions of dollars, and thousands of people to set up and run those servers.

Now take a game like AH. Graphic intensive, not a whole ton, but at the same time the data flow is incredible. in a furball of 30 planes in visual range lets say you have to transfer every minute control adjustment for an accurate and realistic representation of what those other planes are doing. Thats a lot of server work.

In say a "person" based game you could look to the left and see someone with a generic punching motion and the punchee with a generic getting hit motion and you would understand what is going on. You would not need to see the puncher directing the blows directly at the 5th rib above the kidneys per say. You would not need to see that every 3rd hit was partially blocked.


In AH you HAVE to see that the LA7 has more energy and is going to rope that spitfire, and judging by his wing angle on the down swoop he is going to be extending in your direction. Not only is that a lot of graphic rendition power on your end, that is a lot of server power to push that data to you, and everyone near you, in real time. It is also bandwidth power. We'll get into that later.


So why is HTC in transition? They have to choose. Get more players, increase server capacity and bandwidth; or stagnate and keep current player base happy. Even more complicated is the gaining of new players to a complicated game, and getting them to stay. If they just stick to current player base they will go out of business. Face it, we get older, and other real life things take priority. Yes some vets pop in and out, and I bet like myself players that keep paying yet only play once a month or less are a 50% part of HTC's revenue.

If they wanted they'd go mass media, gain 10,000 players in a few months, outsource the servers, and let the game run hog wild. They'd lose quite a few vets, but in the end they could have sick windfall profits, and a toejamty game.



Instead I think they are working on how to deal with 1,000, 2,000, 5,000 players committed online at the same time. That's NOT easy. Do they go to a multiple server scheme that caters to the younger player used to choosing this and that? Or do they stick with one "MA" that caters to the older flight sim vets, those that will help "train" the n00b's?


If they choose the wrong direction they lose both the vets and the n00b's. Right now they are close to the situation where they need to deal with multiplying numbers, but how exactly do they satisfy the vet player base? Without the vets they lose the knowledge base. It seems quite a few vets have seen this and have committed to staying, but have enough? Then you have new players complaining about "numbers on this server versus that server" in their minds.

Should HTC push ahead and grab another 5,000 active players? how much can a 7 person operation sustain? Can they stay in business with a declining vet base, and losing a % of n00b's frustrated with the lack of intimate knowledge in the game? If they went "viral" and subscribed 10,000 a month would that sustain the company with the absence of vet's to teach the game (guessing a majority of vets would give up, and a majority of n00b's would only pay one month)?


Right now I am guessing that Dale, Pyro, and the gang are really torn on how to proceed. They are right about the point where the numbers exceed the current staff capabilities I am guessing (<S> HTC guys you kick prettythang, you can only work so long and so hard).

It's a hard decision, and threads like this only exasperate the situation.

<S> just my thoughts.

[Delirium]

Here is my 5 cents (no longer 2 cents due to inflation)

Orange should ALWAYS be a small map and should only have small maps in rotation, this way on the off high peak hours 100 people aren't lost in a huge map.

Blue should always have a large map and should only have large maps in rotation.

I feel that the Orange cap should be decreased by 20 (every 30 minutes) starting at 8am est until the numbers are roughly even by 1:30pm est, if they are not, the 2 arenas reset.

I am not a 'base taker/war winner', but the above is my idea.

[yanksfan]

As far as off peak hours, they should just close one LW arena whenever player levels drop under say 300 or whatever a good number would be, then let eny balance the sides out. and when there is only one late war there is no arena cap. let one arena run into peak time until there are many players again and open 2nd arena back up.

[dedalos]

Now take a game like AH. Graphic intensive, not a whole ton, but at the same time the data flow is incredible. in a furball of 30 planes in visual range lets say you have to transfer every minute control adjustment for an accurate and realistic representation of what those other planes are doing. Thats a lot of server work.

Not really.  The graphics are just OK and they have nothing to do with the server.  In addition, the server will send you 1 update every 250ms no mater if it is 1 plane or 30 planes in the area.  With 30 the packet size would be bigger.  However, you could have 30 planes in the area no matter what the arena cap is.

Now to your argument about resources, the same amount of people split in two arenas would require the same HT resources right?  Either one better server that handles both or two not as good to handle them separately.  Either way it makes no difference.  Add the 250ms delay and it really makes no difference.

So, the caps have nothing to do with HT resources or the graphics.  The decision was made for other reasons.  I don't care either way, but the split does create a little mess.  Almost every time I go to the MA (not that often) the people I fly with are split up between the arenas.  However, I don't log off because I could not go the other arena and join them.  The point of logging in was to to fly and have some fights.  i can do that anyway.

[BoilerDown]

So why is HTC in transition? They have to choose. Get more players, increase server capacity and bandwidth; or stagnate and keep current player base happy. Even more complicated is the gaining of new players to a complicated game, and getting them to stay. If they just stick to current player base they will go out of business. Face it, we get older, and other real life things take priority. Yes some vets pop in and out, and I bet like myself players that keep paying yet only play once a month or less are a 50% part of HTC's revenue.

I played World of Warcraft tons... and I mean tons, before recently quitting about a month or two ago (and return to actually using the AH2 account I've been paying for since last summer).

There's a huge percentage of the WoW population that just wants to do player vs. player.  The problem in WoW is that to succeed at virtually killing other players, it only somewhat has to do with the skill of the respective players, and a lot more has to do with what gear you've collected, what class and race your character is, and of course, your level.

No one starts playing World of Warcraft knowing that such and such class stinks in PvP.  You spend a few months getting your gear and getting to max level, to possibly find out no matter how well you play, you're never going to kill other classes because they are just inherantly better than you and there's no amount of skill that will close the gap.  And there's a huge rebellion against this fact among player vs. player types in WoW, a lot of people are upset.

Now compare that to Aces High, a game that is ENTIRELY about skill and knowledge, and very little about what plane you're flying.  The games are nothing alike other than in both games, there's lots of real life people controlling cartoons that are trying to virtually kill each other.  But if Hi Tech could market to the disgruntled WoW PvPer... tell them here's a game that actually REQUIRES skill... and if you only got 0.1% of the population to try Aces High out...:  BAM, they'd recruit ten thousand (10,000) players without having to make ANY consessions to gameplay whatsever.  Just have to open more late war arenas, that's it.

The best thing Hi Tech could do is in addition to the advertisements on the History and Military channels, and put them in IGE and various World of Warcraft websites... emphasise that its a MMO that actually takes SKILL to succeed in.  Then arena caps would be a non-factor.  Well maybe Early and Mid war arena caps might be the discussion instead, and I wouldn't mind flying a D11 in Mid war all the time.

[MajIssue]

How about next time you log on, you go to the arena with the lowest numbers?  Then if everyone like minded has the same idea, and makes the same choice ~ they'll go to the arena with lower numbers as well & there would be good fights all around.

I have to disagree TXMom!

I do the .sr command and see 7 of my squaddies are in Orange (for example) and the cap is 325/200. Why should I as a subscription paying member of the AH community have my choice limited by a totally artificial and seemingly arbitrary arena cap? There might be a REASON that the underpopulated map has no players... maybe the players are tired of seeing that ****** Baltic (for example) map for the third time in succession, or the knights have an ENY of 29... IMHO, HTC should let the marketplace decide.

It is on HTC to provide an incentive to go into the least popular arena.

The idea of a penalty system (read that ARENA CAP) is backward, when a reward system might get better results. An example of a reward system (off the top of my head) might be to  have a triple perk point multiplier or make ME-262's cost 25 points across the board.

My 2 cents: The current CAP system is terrible for whatever reason it exists and a better system of balancing HTCs server load needs to be found.