Radar...

[33Vortex]

HOW many more examples do you want me to post that showed radar was not a person looking at a COMP term and seeing red dots coming his way .

That is all I am trying to say . IT simply was not there and did not happen that way .
I gave two examples and now they are being used as verbatim.

Technically if you want to get down to facts all radar in WWII was developed by the NAVY.

SEE link

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_Radar_WWII.htm



I'm just trying to take advantages away from couch potatoes logging in and then popping up and hitting opponents without even puttting any effort into it

BUT i digress
what will be will be

Ok, so now I'm a couch potato who doesn't put any effort into clearing the skies of allied bombers? Insulting people won't get you anywhere, I do hope that you realize that. 

You also need to realize the vast differences between the real world environment and a computer game. In WW2 radar technology went through amazing development, as many other technologies. The old fashioned ground observer was never obsolete however, as radar installations were vulnerable to the very air attacks they were designed to help defeat. Given the weather was good enough, anyone on the ground could easily spot the hundreds of allied bombers overhead which made up a big allied mission. Now, look at the maps we have, each grid is 25x25 miles. Is it not reasonable to believe that you would be able to relay information, from the ground (whoever it may be, even civilians would call in), to authorities that a bomber raid was inbound? Even if not clearly visible, you could actually HEAR the hundreds of a/c passing by overhead, with about 20-30s delay as the sound travel down to earth.

So the conclusion must be that yes, even without radar aid bomber raids could be detected and intercepted. At night though, a whole different story! Afaik we are operating in daylight conditions so far, no? The only unrealistic aspect of dar bars is that they indicate enemy presence in enemy territory as well.

[oceans11]

That's funny, because you still managed to hit our strats significantly harder than we managed to hit yours, on the first day. That was because we were all busy intercepting your bombers, leaving little time for us to hit back. We were somewhat successful intercepting allied bombers, but by no means did we prevent you from hitting intended targets. If a bad day for you is to have 50% of your bombers destroyed before reaching the target, feel free to look at the axis conditions where whole units get annihilated trying to take down your stratosphere cruising bomb haulers.

Please realize that there are two sides in this fight, and that the axis are not here just to satisfy the allies' needs of opposition. By design the allies already hold many advantages, it's just the way it is because that's how it was. So a fair fight is really hard to achieve. Radar bars within friendly territory, but not in enemy territory, would be the answer, as previously posted. Lacking that feature, what MrFork is offering is perhaps the best alternative.



Vortex
I cannot argue with you
I have to much respect since you like me are online for the entire night and for that SIR I salute and respect you .

Perhaps I am being a little over the top on realism and for that SIR I apologize.
It just gets a little frustrating at timesb

Respectfully <S>

[oceans11]

Ok, so now I'm a couch potato who doesn't put any effort into clearing the skies of allied bombers? Insulting people won't get you anywhere, I do hope you realize that.

You also need to realize the vast differences between the real world environment and a computer game. In WW2 radar technology went through amazing development, as many other technologies. The old fashioned ground observer was never obsolete however, as radar installations were vulnerable to the very air attacks they were designed to help defeat. Given the weather was good enough, anyone on the ground could easily spot the hundreds of allied bombers overhead which made up a big allied mission. Now, look at the maps we have, each grid is 25x25 miles. Is it not reasonable to believe that you would be able to relay information, from the ground (whoever it may be, even civilians would call in), to authorities that a bomber raid was inbound? Even if not clearly visible, you could actually HEAR the hundreds of a/c passing by overhead, with about 20-30s delay as the sound travel down to earth.

You no couch potatoe ....

So the conclusion must be that yes, even without radar aid bomber raids could be detected and intercepted. At night though, a whole different story! Afaik we are operating in daylight conditions so far, no? The only unrealistic aspect of dar bars is that they indicate enemy presence in enemy territory as well.

[lutrel]

  I would have to agree that Radar Bars within friendly territory, but not in enemy territory, would be the best answer.  However, we'll have to wait for a staffer to chime in and see if that is a possible setting.  If not, I'd be happy with Mr. Forks suggestion of each country spending their hard earned budget for the radar system they desire.

[flatiron1]

only problem with the bugets is the axis equipment  cost a whole lot less than the allied.

[33Vortex]

only problem with the bugets is the axis equipment  cost a whole lot less than the allied.

Still, you have the Tempest, P51D, P38 (which version???), I've seen F4Us going like rockets, is that F4U4? La7? Did I miss something??? The only good low-med alt fighter we have is the 109K. For high alt we have the Ta152.

This is no place to complain my friend... 

[flatiron1]

"This is no place to complain my friend... "


You are the one complaining Vortex about the dar bar. I was just stating a fact about the differences in equipment costs and the additional expense of paying for dar bar. You cannot argue that axis does not have the advantage in this aspect.

rant on my friend 

[33Vortex]

Whatever you say... I can not change the way you think, you see in my posts merely what you want to see. I was pointing at the fact that the allies have a selection of very potent fighters, while we have 2... 3 if we're lucky. So don't tell us that your equipment is expensive. Jets anyone?

[Stampf]

Allied Air Strats  4
Axis Air starts    1

Allies VB Spawns into target 3 
Axis......................... ........0

Price of Allied equipment is expensive...so is the performance of the a/c

Axis target zones   5
Allied................... 3

This as a game gents, and obviously this first attempt is not perfect of on a even playing field.  Stay constructive and avoid the personal attacks here gents.

The staff is providing us the best damn Arena in the game to play in, working hard and evaluating what works and what doesnt.  Keep the Axis/Allies crap in the private forums.  Show a United front here in public...

The goal is to attract people to the Arena.  Never argue..."Historically it was like this"...etc... Historcially the Allies would be upping 1500 bombers and 3000 fighters against a handful of defenders.  How many people would want to play that?  This is not history, it's a game.  Play it nice and treat the other players with respect, or head on back to the kiddie Arena's.

[oceans11]

Allied Air Strats  4
Axis Air starts    1

Allies VB Spawns into target 3 
Axis......................... ........0

Price of Allied equipment is expensive...so is the performance of the a/c

Axis target zones   5
Allied................... 3

This as a game gents, and obviously this first attempt is not perfect of on a even playing field.  Stay constructive and avoid the personal attacks here gents.

The staff is providing us the best damn Arena in the game to play in, working hard and evaluating what works and what doesnt.  Keep the Axis/Allies crap in the private forums.  Show a United front here in public...

The goal is to attract people to the Arena.  Never argue..."Historically it was like this"...etc... Historcially the Allies would be upping 1500 bombers and 3000 fighters against a handful of defenders.  How many people would want to play that?  This is not history, it's a game.  Play it nice and treat the other players with respect, or head on back to the kiddie Arena's.

Agreed
It was a fun last couple of NIGHTS/Early mornings

[33Vortex]

What Stampf said.


Upping 26 fighters against a allied armada of 1200 bombers and 800 fighters would suck. 


Soo... let's just have fun. 

[TUXC]

Allied Air Strats  4
Axis Air starts    1

Allies VB Spawns into target 3 
Axis......................... ........0

Price of Allied equipment is expensive...so is the performance of the a/c

Axis target zones   5
Allied................... 3

This as a game gents, and obviously this first attempt is not perfect of on a even playing field.  Stay constructive and avoid the personal attacks here gents.

The staff is providing us the best damn Arena in the game to play in, working hard and evaluating what works and what doesnt.  Keep the Axis/Allies crap in the private forums.  Show a United front here in public...

The goal is to attract people to the Arena.  Never argue..."Historically it was like this"...etc... Historcially the Allies would be upping 1500 bombers and 3000 fighters against a handful of defenders.  How many people would want to play that?  This is not history, it's a game.  Play it nice and treat the other players with respect, or head on back to the kiddie Arena's.

Well said.

[Stampf]

Thanks guys, and I don't mean to preach, at all.

Now, if there was a couple hundred guys in the Arena, I would say..."whatever" about the radar dar bars.  That is not the case now, however.  Some kind of "earlier" warning dar should be employeed at this time, or in the near future, based on the current population, and the desire to promote action.  Now I see all great things coming down the road for the AvA.  Mark my words, it's moving closer and closer to a round the clock arena.  You can see it already.  Be a positive part of this growth, and always support the Arena in public.  It's not perfect right now, but I would venture to say that most everyone agrees it's moving in the right direction.  At least these bbs are now looking somewhat like a productive conversation medium, compared to the past.  Let's not digress ourselves here, into that muck, rather pool our thoughts, ideas, concerns, opinions, desires, observations, together in an effort to shorten the time it takes to find the best possible situation for all players, and create a really exciting, fun, historically based Arena for all interested in a more true to life WW2 experience.

My whole point is, that when the discussion is begun in a way, or goes down the wrong path, people shut down, and all productive communication comes to an end.  Wanna piss off your foeman?  Do it in game, as HT says. Shoot him down, bomb his taverns,...steal his women,...etc... The forum is the place to share ideas and reap the benefits of our collective thoughts.

[oceans11]

Thanks guys, and I don't mean to preach, at all.


My whole point is, that when the discussion is begun in a way, or goes down the wrong path, people shut down, and all productive communication comes to an end.  Wanna piss off your foeman?  Do it in game, as HT says. Shoot him down, bomb his taverns,...steal his women,...etc... The forum is the place to share ideas and reap the benefits of our collective thoughts.

I would prefer to this

My men, my compadres...
                 
what we have done,
we have done together.
                   
I know each one of you
like I know my own smell. 
                   
We fought together
the priests of this mission.   
                   
We crushed the federales
on the plains of Oaxaca.   
                   
OLD Bull!
   
                   
Together, we...   
                   
- Burned the village!
- Burned the village! 
                   
- And...
- Raped the horses!   
                   
And we...   
                   
- Rode off on the women!
- Rode off on the women!
  
                   
And...   
                   
- We plundered!
- Plundered!

                     
- And...
- Pruned.

   
                   
- Pruned the...
- Hedges.

   
                   
- Hedges.
- Of many small villages.

   
                   
Of many small villages.
Who the hell are you?

   
                   
- Another one of the whoopee gringos.
- Take this monkey away!

I HAD TO INTERJECT SOME HUMOR 

[33Vortex]