AH Community question.....fix kill stealing?

[SpazMan]

I make a concerted effort to back off any plane I see with major damage or someone calls down over vox. The only damaged plane I'll still fire on is a buff flying over a base if he/she hasn't dropped their eggs. I learned that early on in this game.

[humble]

The biggest problems are simple, 1st you dont know what damage was done already. Your assuming the kill was awarded for damage done after your pass....I've found 90%+ of the time I get the kill when I should. 2nd your calling something out on range that may not be true. I'd say 90%+ the "cripple" isnt...

For every kill you lose you'll get 2 or 3 back from other guys finishing off cons you initially engaged but couldnt finish.

[BlauK]

3/2008
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,228878.msg2777459.html#msg2777459

6/2004
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,118517.msg1244235.html#msg1244235

5/2002
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,52707.msg480289.html#msg480289


HT actually gave some of his opinions in that 2002 thread...

[Excel1]

Whoa, you shot the tail off? That plane is still a threat, I would have keep shooting him til he was a flying seat or he exploded!

But sometimes lag can affect it, he may not see the tail fly off and figures you broke off, but who knows? I say get rid of the kill messages, make it interesting!

that might happen more often than you think... a guy with a laggy connection hosing down a con that's already been wasted by a nearby friendly, but only he doesn't know it because his front end is a few seconds behind the game. in the past playing from new zealand with a dial-up i use to get a few "wtf are you doing" in the text buffer, "i'm just making sure" would be the reply to that, and "sorry lag" if they were polite.

leave the kill messages. get rid of rank and the score system. i know that's not a viable commercial option for htc, but one can hope. it would help deflate some of the ubber egos, make scorewhoring pointless and maybe lower the overall whine content and the truly good sticks will always shine through anyway. imo, as almost a pure ww2 combat flight sim being rewarded by a score system was irrelevant and not needed to enjoy the game... game play was alot better, less quake like, and more fun before the obsession with rank, perks and points.. and all those pesky ground vehicles

[Tumor]

Fix kill stealing?  That would take ALL the fun out of, of... KILL STEALING!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! 

[Murdr]

, because it does no good and it's likely a noob kid that doesn't know any better anyway. 


Should it be fixed or rewarded?

I have seen many a long time player (often one of the score mongers), who intentionally do this.  No ifs ands or buts about it.  No chance for a lag excuse.  No chance for an "I just wanted to see who it was" excuse when the friendly was not in any way involved in the fighting.  And yes it should be fixed.  When it becomes prevalent enough that there are constant complaints on the subject, it probably will be fixed.  

The last player I seen do it to a plane I shot was Dextur.  He was trailing me outbound 4k back, I caught a N1K2 unawares, took it's tail off and kept going.  Still 4k in trail I watched him dive on at the last second at the falling N1K and pump it until it exploded.  

I have, over and over and over and over and over, watched friendlies dart from every direction on a wingless or tailless plane, like a bunch of fish in a tank going after the same piece of food.  This is long overdue to be fixed, and the apathetic, and jaded replies, do nothing but endorse this kind of gameplay behavior.  Which to me is a good thing, because when the community just shrugs is shoulders over undesired behavior, it becomes more prevailent until it reaches the point the HTC addresses it.

[Saurdaukar]

The thing that bugs me is when I've been working my kill down to a state where I can line up a good hit with the 'tater and some dweeb flies in between to steal my hard won kill, killshooting me with the 'tater in the progress.

+eleventybillion

[Banshee7]

OMG.  You wrong for that

thats why WoT doesn't do many raids together...we take our mind of the base and fights for the kills

[Masherbrum]

I have seen many a long time player (often one of the score mongers), who intentionally do this.  No ifs ands or buts about it.  No chance for a lag excuse.  No chance for an "I just wanted to see who it was" excuse when the friendly was not in any way involved in the fighting.  And yes it should be fixed.  When it becomes prevalent enough that there are constant complaints on the subject, it probably will be fixed.  

The last player I seen do it to a plane I shot was Dextur.  He was trailing me outbound 4k back, I caught a N1K2 unawares, took it's tail off and kept going.  Still 4k in trail I watched him dive on at the last second at the falling N1K and pump it until it exploded.  

I have, over and over and over and over and over, watched friendlies dart from every direction on a wingless or tailless plane, like a bunch of fish in a tank going after the same piece of food.  This is long overdue to be fixed, and the apathetic, and jaded replies, do nothing but endorse this kind of gameplay behavior.  Which to me is a good thing, because when the community just shrugs is shoulders over undesired behavior, it becomes more prevailent until it reaches the point the HTC addresses it.

That is the only way dextur can manage kills.   I enjoy ruining "bottomfeeders" nights.   When I see bullets flying past me, I deliberately fly into them just to hear the whines on Range.   

[Roundeye]

Murdr, I <S> you, sir.  You seem to understand exactly where I'm coming from.  Thank you for the quote from HT.  I see now that it has been an issue the community wants to see go away and HT was (of course) miles ahead of me in thinking of a solution.

To all who said I should have finished him:  Exactly how could I have?  We were in a tight turn and I was about 200 off of his 6.  When I sawed the tail off, it immediately pitched up and pretty much stopped as it began to fall like a rock.  Impossible to pull that maneuver in a flyable plane.  Even if I could have, I would have collided with it. I would have had to loop around to finish off the falling wreck which would not be very high by then.  The "friendly" behind me was in perfect position to fire on the wreckage.....the deed was done right as I looked back from passing it.

To those who thought someone else hit it first:  This plane was very high and dropped in to our field which was becoming capped by the enemy.  I watched it the whole time waiting for it to blow it's E.  When it did, I struck.  I was about 200 behind and saw no missing parts, no smoke/fuel/glycol trails.  Completely intact.  After I sawed the tail off, I called it down, looked back and watched The "friendly" behind me dive with it pouring a hail of gunfire into the falling wreck until it exploded.

Again, I say a plane should be scored as dead if it loses a complete wing, all of it's horizontal stabilizers, all of the vertical stabilizer(s) or tail section.  If any of those occur on an airborne plane, it is DONE FOR.  It is no longer under any kind of control and is nothing more than falling, out-of-control wreckage.  It's not hard.  HT has the technology and has already studied on it.  That would wind this issue up for good.

[nirvana]

You gotta finish 'em off!  WOOWOOOOOO!

[Cthulhu]

Again, I say a plane should be scored as dead if it loses a complete wing, all of it's horizontal stabilizers, all of the vertical stabilizer(s) or tail section.  If any of those occur on an airborne plane, it is DONE FOR.  It is no longer under any kind of control and is nothing more than falling, out-of-control wreckage.  It's not hard.  HT has the technology and has already studied on it.  That would wind this issue up for good.

Agreed, But I'd also like to see that apply to planes on fire. Granted, torches can still do damage, but the guy who initially lit that torch should get the kill when it inevitably goes down. Unless of course the torch is miraculously able to land or ditch in time.

[BaldEagl]

I agree it should be fixed as you say.  I've had it happen to me several times blatantly but not recently.

Sometimes they are just a mistake but a fix would solve that too.

On the other hand, I've seen a lot of guys call a plane down on range only to watch it level off and fly on.  In that case, I'm going in on it if I'm in position.

[MachNum]

... HT has the technology and has already studied on it.  That would wind this issue up for good.

HT's solution looks viable to me. I'll assume that it's priority is not high enough yet, so maybe votes will help. I say 

Not to hijack the thread, but on the issue of fire, I think it would be much more interesting to have fires be something other than a countdown to certain doom. After all, many planes had on-board fire extinguishing systems, and operations manuals advised high speed dives to attempt to extinguish a fire. That might also help with the sudden killer urge folks get when they "flame on". Of course, this leads to questions about why self-sealing fuel tanks don't and why there is leaking fuel from empty tanks, but I'll quit now.

[Roundeye]

Agreed, But I'd also like to see that apply to planes on fire. Granted, torches can still do damage, but the guy who initially lit that torch should get the kill when it inevitably goes down. Unless of course the torch is miraculously able to land or ditch in time.

I thought this would come up.  I, sir, must respectfully disagree and here is why:  I have, in a Zeke (go figure), shot planes down while on fire.  I have also safely landed and ditched while on fire.  A burning plane (esp. a Zero/Zeke) is very much alive and a threat.  It's time is limited, but it still has guns and is still flying under control.

Now, before these are brought up, let me add these as well:  Half of a wing missing is NOT dead.  I have shot planes, dropped ords and safely landed a F6F with half of a wing missing.  It will still fly and is under control.  I have also flown back and landed a B-24 with half of both wings shot off.  Same applies to flight controls.  I have flown home and landed planes missing both ailerons.  One missing a rudder is not hard to bring home either.  Now missing both elevators is tricky, but can be limped to friendly territory and ditched using power and flaps and turning it on it's side (using the rudder like an elevator) to control it's rate of decent.  (I have not gotten one to flare for safe landing without elevators yet)  The above conditions are wounded, but dead by no means.  They still fly.

Basically its' like this:  If it is still FLYING and UNDER CONTROL, it is not dead.  A plane missing an entire wing, any set of primary surfaces of the tail, or the tail section has no hope of flying or remaining under any form of control.  It is a crash looking for a place to happen.