Author Topic: Don't Talk to Police  (Read 1465 times)

Offline Terror

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Don't Talk to Police
« on: June 24, 2008, 03:20:07 PM »

Got this video in my email last week.  Decided I would share since I thought it was very interesting and relevent to many of the discussions in the forum.

It definitely applies to CCW.  If you get into an "incident", be as calm as possible, keep your mouth shut and get a lawyer to help you make a statement.

Two videos ~40mins.  First is a Law Professor, second is a Veteran Police Detective...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6014022229458915912&ei=&hl=en

I found this as a "Statement card" that is carried with you in case of an incident...

Quote
Dear Officer: If I have given this to you, I have unfortunately had to do what was necessary to defend innocent life. I am willing to sign a criminal complaint against the perpetrators(s). I will point out witnesses and evidence.

As you may have experienced yourself, this is a stressful and traumatic experience for me. Therefore, I wish to make no further statements until I have contacted an attorney and composed myself. I also do not consent to any searches. I will cooperate fully once I have consulted with an attorney and calmed down. As a lawfully armed citizen, I ask for the same courtesy that you would show a fellow officer who was involved in a similar situation.

Thank-you. Printed on XXXXXXX (date)

Terror

VWE

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Re: Don't Talk to Police
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2008, 03:36:42 PM »
It is within your constitutional rights not to talk when pulled over, how ever if you chose to do so you can almost guaranty recieving a ticket. I have not recieved any driving awards in over 16 years, I have been pulled over and told the officer exactly what I did wrong when asked. Honesty produces fairness and I've yet to recieve a penalty for doing so because I believe what used to be average (honesty) is now above average.

Offline ZetaNine

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Re: Don't Talk to Police
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008, 03:44:20 PM »
Dear Officer: If I have given this to you, I have unfortunately had to do what was necessary to defend innocent life. I am willing to sign a criminal complaint against the perpetrators(s). I will point out witnesses and evidence.

As you may have experienced yourself, this is a stressful and traumatic experience for me. Therefore, I wish to make no further statements until I have contacted an attorney and composed myself. I also do not consent to any searches. I will cooperate fully once I have consulted with an attorney and calmed down. As a lawfully armed citizen, I ask for the same courtesy that you would show a fellow officer who was involved in a similar situation.

Thank-you. Printed on XXXXXXX (date)




presenting that pre-made statement to an officer will seal your fate in court...and it won't be good. simply refuse to make any statement or disclosure whatsoever, and tell them you have nothing to say until your attorney is present.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 03:46:13 PM by ZetaNine »

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Don't Talk to Police
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008, 03:44:46 PM »
Theres a lot of us you wouldnt even have to say that to.

OOPs, I forgot. Were all out to get you right?
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"

Offline Terror

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Re: Don't Talk to Police
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 03:47:49 PM »
presenting that pre-made statement to an officer will seal your fate in court...and it won't be good. simply refuse to make any statement or disclosure whatsoever, and tell them you have nothing to say until your attorney is present.

So what is different from carrying this card with your carry gear than carrying a gun alone?  Both are being prepared, not premeditation.

Terror

Offline ZetaNine

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Re: Don't Talk to Police
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008, 03:48:50 PM »
So what is different from carrying this card with your carry gear than carrying a gun alone?  Both are being prepared, not premeditation.

Terror




it shows willful intent prior to the incident.

a first year prosecutor could have a field day with that insta-disclaimer.  He'd paint anyone with one of those as a wannabe cop, dirty harry, that thought he had a license to kill, even before the incident took place, regarldess of the situation and circumstances. a get out of jail free card...if you will.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 03:57:05 PM by ZetaNine »

Offline Terror

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Re: Don't Talk to Police
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2008, 03:51:14 PM »
it shows intent prior to the incident.

It shows nothing but being prepared.  It's mearly a statement that I am willing to point out witnesses, wish to press charges, and would like to stay silent until a lawyer is present.  If you say that a card with those statements are on it are premeditation, then carrying the firearm would also be considered premeditation.

Terror

Offline ZetaNine

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Re: Don't Talk to Police
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 03:52:00 PM »
It shows nothing but being prepared.  It's mearly a statement that I am willing to point out witnesses, wish to press charges, and would like to stay silent until a lawyer is present.  If you say that a card with those statements are on it are premeditation, then carrying the firearm would also be considered premeditation.

Terror

good luck with that.

Offline Terror

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Re: Don't Talk to Police
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2008, 04:02:43 PM »
good luck with that.

Zeta,
Great response...completely thought out...clear and precise...

Is having a concealed firearm along with the statement card above indicate premeditation more than carrying the firearm alone?  I guess I don't see how having a pre-printed statement card would indicate pre-meditation anymore than having the cancealed weapon in the first place.  IMO, its just being prepared for a situation that you know will be extremely stressful.

Terror

Offline cpxxx

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Re: Don't Talk to Police
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2008, 04:06:01 PM »
Very interesting. I'm not sure if the Spanish or Italians would be pleased with the detective's comments. But the point he made about traffic offenses. I disagree with VWE, honesty is not a good policy when it comes to police stops. Courtesy is a good policy. I was stopped on my bike once by the police. He told me I was doing 95. I said 'No way'. 'Well what speed were you doing? Expecting me to be dumb enough to say 'only 85 or something'. In any case I wasn't lying. I had no idea what speed I was doing as the speedo cable broke long before.  :angel: Over the years I took the same attitude, courtesy and little talking. I have never had a single driving conviction in 24 years of outright hooliganism.  :o (I'm not that proud of it though).

In this country, you definitely do have the right to remain silent. Many criminals take advantage of it. I can think of two wife killers who definitley did it but got away with it by saying nothing. Worse still, well known gangsters and terrorists simply say nothing during interviews. Even their low level followers keep their mouths shut because all interviews are taped, with a copy given to the accused. If they are released, their boss, listens to the tape. Needless to say, any indiscretion is dealt with by a bullet or two to the head. Of course when the boss is brought in. He says nothing except maybe 'I'm taking the fifh' which doesn't apply here, but everyone has seen the movies.

But the point is fair, guilty or innocent, say nothing.

Here's a clip from the Movie 'Ordinary decent criminal' Kevin Spacey played a real gangster. Note how he says nothing. Note also his alibi when the Police golf course was ripped apart. In the end the man he played was never convicted of anything despite being followed day and night by the cops. He was finally assassinated by the IRA because he crossed them too and they had a subtly different justice system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91wGPQe3-HM


« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 04:17:53 PM by cpxxx »

Offline ZetaNine

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Re: Don't Talk to Police
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2008, 04:08:34 PM »
Zeta,
Great response...completely thought out...clear and precise...

Is having a concealed firearm along with the statement card above indicate premeditation more than carrying the firearm alone?  I guess I don't see how having a pre-printed statement card would indicate pre-meditation anymore than having the cancealed weapon in the first place.  IMO, its just being prepared for a situation that you know will be extremely stressful.

Terror




you're not thinking about the trial, the prosecution .... or the jury.  you would be painted as a dirty harry who went looking for trouble...or at the very least...planned for it.  that's not the kind of position you want to be in, as a defendant in a capital crime.

if you still feel compelled to hand them something.....stand over the dead body and draw a picture of flowers and hand it to the cop...smile...and sing the national anthem in a bad scottish accent....at least that way you'll have a good shot at an insanity defense.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 04:12:59 PM by ZetaNine »

Offline rpm

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Re: Don't Talk to Police
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2008, 04:51:05 PM »
Hypothetical Jury Room deliberation:

Juror #1: Looks to me like the guy was just itching to shoot somebody. He even made that stupid card thing ahead of time.

Juror #2: Hmmm, good point.

Juror #3 Why didn't he just explain what happened to the officer? I think he's hiding something. #1 may be on to something...
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Offline Pei

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Re: Don't Talk to Police
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2008, 04:51:32 PM »
I am with cpxxx on this: be polite, be co-operative but admit nothing. The days when an policeman could use his discretion are long gone and once the complaint has been forwarded to the prosecution service they will try and find anything to convict you with.

Offline Mackay

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Re: Don't Talk to Police
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2008, 05:02:22 PM »
That's pretty cool, I know Det Bruch. His kid goes to the same martial arts school my kids do.

As far as carrying a written statement in my wallet along with my CCP, that would never happen. If I ever had to pull and shoot someone, as soon as the first cop got within 50 yards of me, I'd be placing my weapon on the ground, stepping back away from it with my hands over my head, CCP and ID in hand, ready to do whatever the officer told me to do. As soon as they start asking me questions I'd ask for a lawyer.

Offline Terror

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Re: Don't Talk to Police
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2008, 05:06:57 PM »

Yep, CPXXX hit this perfectly.  Watch the vids.  All the card is there for is to help you keep your mouth shut.  Even completely innocent comments can be used to convict you.  The card states your rights without you having to remember them in a situation which has your mind in "fight or flight" mode.

Terror