For you law enforcement supporters

[CAP1]

anywho laz......... the national law enforcement officers memorial fund has been my charity of choice since the early 90's........so I may just be biased.... this is something I feel deeply about...and I don't see anyone changing my opinion.

get yourself to a bigger city...and ride with a cop for a day...or night.  they have programs that allow this. try miami, NY, philly, atlanta, la, boston, DC........ just one ride with them for an 8 hour shift....and I bet you change your mind.

in philly or dc, i'd bet most wouldn't make it a full 8 hour shift with an officer

[SteveBailey]

  cops, firemen, and ems risk it for us.

That's simply an inaccurate catch all.  You're right, you are biased.

[Rich46yo]

you need to follow the link..   In most towns they can't even recall the last time a fireman or cop was killed..

The biggest cause of injury for cops here is that they are out of shape and they get back injuries from their utility belts.  "getting out of the car" is the most often listed cause of police injury.

You really need to get up on a roof sometime in the heat of the summer and do a days work and then get back to me.

lazs

So that means your a roofer right? Where I live roofers make good money. Or are you a Doctor who specializes in Police work related injuries? Its hard to tell because you constantly babble. Babble as if you know everything.

And Laz the only one whining in this thread is you.

[68Wooley]

I work with cops every day. Most do a great job and I'm grateful to them - I certaibly don't have the temperament for it.

That said, as a profession, I'm staggered how well paid they are in the larger urban and state agencies. I've a guy working with me who retired as a state trooper after 25 years services. He's in his early forties. He's on an inflation linked $80K pension for the rest of his life - 40+ years potentially - with health care for him and his family thrown in. Think how much you would have to have earned in the private sector to have had the 401K investments to match that. All for a mere 25 year service (during which he was earning a good salary).

Regarding the low-pay of the rural sheriffs in the original story and the inability of the communities to pay any more, that's just one more reason why the fragmented nature of law enforcement in the US makes no sense.

[Fulmar]

24,000+ posts for laz.  What percentage of those are utter non-sense?

[CAP1]

I work with cops every day. Most do a great job and I'm grateful to them - I certaibly don't have the temperament for it.

That said, as a profession, I'm staggered how well paid they are in the larger urban and state agencies. I've a guy working with me who retired as a state trooper after 25 years services. He's in his early forties. He's on an inflation linked $80K pension for the rest of his life - 40+ years potentially - with health care for him and his family thrown in. Think how much you would have to have earned in the private sector to have had the 401K investments to match that. All for a mere 25 year service (during which he was earning a good salary).

Regarding the low-pay of the rural sheriffs in the original story and the inability of the communities to pay any more, that's just one more reason why the fragmented nature of law enforcement in the US makes no sense.

ok...what then makes a football player worth millions/? what use do they really serve? who do they help?

[TEXAS20]

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_staff/Public_information/publications/chaparral/chap1199.pdf

O lord
I remember the ringing of the phone
At home asleep and all alone

I pushed away fatigue and answered the call
To learn the news of Terry’s fall

I jumped to my feet and grabbed my gun
But I was miles away and the deed had been done

I slumped to my knees and there I wept
Thinking of his child and a promise not kept

Murdered by a coward hiding in the wood
Arm in arm with Satan this monster stood

To take away a father, a brother, a friend
O lord I beg you make hell his end

He hated Terry’s badge and knew not the man
Does it make me wrong to pray him damned

For it has been six very long years
and the sound of Terry’s name still brings tears

Oh please help us, the ones left behind
Let it not be anger but peace we find


Miss you

I will not respond to some of the comments made about police officers as my response would be angry. I figured i would just share Terry,Thomas and Mark's story with those that had not heard of it. Terry was friend, a good father and a darn good cop.    Police, Fire, Ems, Troops     All dangerous Jobs in a dangerous time.

[68Wooley]

ok...what then makes a football player worth millions/? what use do they really serve? who do they help?

You're not comparing like with like. Crazy as it may be, footballers are paid the market rate for their services. If there weren't people willing to miliions, it wouldn't happen. There's also a much, much smaller number of people with the ability to be a top level footballer than to be a cop.

Cops, like all civil servants, work outside of commercial reality. What they get paid is based on some perception of the value of what they do that's untested by market forces. In the commercial world, you earn what people are willing to pay for your services. Civil servants get paid whatever their unions can convince the local / state / federal government to part with. Often that seems - to me - way too much once you factor in the cost of the benefits.

Its no surprise that government workers are amongst the last to receive final salary based pensions. These were long ago abandoned by most private industries as too expensive and replaced by money-purchase schemes. Government, however, is not burdened by the annoyance of having to make money to run their business, so these super-generous pensions continue to be funded by you and I.

[Maverick]

Nice to see the sanctimonious posts from folks who never did the job yet are fully qualified to demonize or belittle those that did.

For those who think the pay is extravagant try comparing it to the area for other skilled professional pay. Then take the comparison by the cost of living in the area.

Laz frankly your taking the area of the country with the most outrageous cost of living with commensurate pay to convince folks to work there is egregious. By far the majority of LEO's do not get that kind of wage or retirement benefits. LA, NY, Chicago are not the norm nor are they even the majority.

I retired, unwillingly due to disability, in 94. My pension is hardly in the 90k 80k or even in the 40k range even today and any raises in the pension are not guaranteed and they sure as hell are not based on a set percentage or even a cola. It all depends on if the retirement fund makes a profit or not. No profit, no raise. The same situation for other public employees. My wife got a $35.00 raise on her pension in the last 4 years. She was advised there would be no other raises possible until 2014 at the earliest depending on the economic situation of the fund.

[lazs2]

lets try to not get all emotional here..  I work with cops every day and like most of em and respect their service and.. I wouldn't put up with the crap they put up with.. most of it is political tho.

Now.. you guys are apple and oranges here.. you talk about the low pay for cops and high danger... you use big cities as an example.. big cities pay big money and big bennies to cops.  It is more dangerous but.. for every cop that dies in that city... 20 or more roofers do.   

for the entire country.. in 2004... 154 cops died on duty.. of that... more than half were traffic related.

The cops I know here were talking about a conference they attended in LA.. a bad part.. they were all armed... they said they did not know how, as citizens we went around in dangreous places every day that they would not go into without a gun while doing civilian living normal life stuff.

In small towns the risk is almost nothing and the pay is low.

Rich.. perhaps you should tell us about your salary and bennie package and see just what these good people think about what a raw deal you are getting...  it seems that you are like some teachers and are extremely sensitive.

I respect police but they are not saints or noble or better than the rest of us or... in this case... deserve more compensation BASED ON RISK

and that is what this thread was about.. the risk is simply not that high.

lazs

[Rich46yo]

Even in big cities pensions, indeed not even wage increases, keep up with inflation. We are paid less then many suburban Dept.s despite the fact we work in crime plagued areas.

I know very few LEOs who retire and dont have to do somthing to add to their pensions. Almost all I know still working the car also work a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th, pt job.

Whatever I am making as a big city street cop I am scraping by to live decently in a decent neighborhood and have to work several PT jobs to do it, along with a working wife. My house taxes alone, for a small 2&1/2 bedroom ranch, are $7,000 a year.

Im proud of my fellow POs.  I'm proud of what they do. But I dont want this for my kid. Not the west side of the big city I dont and I'd prefer him not getting into Law Enforcement at all.

[CAP1]

You're not comparing like with like. Crazy as it may be, footballers are paid the market rate for their services. If there weren't people willing to miliions, it wouldn't happen. There's also a much, much smaller number of people with the ability to be a top level footballer than to be a cop.

Cops, like all civil servants, work outside of commercial reality. What they get paid is based on some perception of the value of what they do that's untested by market forces. In the commercial world, you earn what people are willing to pay for your services. Civil servants get paid whatever their unions can convince the local / state / federal government to part with. Often that seems - to me - way too much once you factor in the cost of the benefits.

Its no surprise that government workers are amongst the last to receive final salary based pensions. These were long ago abandoned by most private industries as too expensive and replaced by money-purchase schemes. Government, however, is not burdened by the annoyance of having to make money to run their business, so these super-generous pensions continue to be funded by you and I.

i know, and i undersztand that..it just pisses me off when the very same people that will pay $100 for a ticket to a football game and $5 for warm beer and $2 or 3 for cold hotdog while they're there complain about what cops get paid. although they're only human just like the rest of us, they DO keep things in as best order as they can. i know for certian that i could never do what they do.

<<S>>to them all.....

[CAP1]

Now.. you guys are apple and oranges here.. you talk about the low pay for cops and high danger... you use big cities as an example.. big cities pay big money and big bennies to cops.  It is more dangerous but.. for every cop that dies in that city... 20 or more roofers do.   

soooo..you're saying that at least 60 roofers have died in philly this year? i'll have to see if i can find stats on that for ya......

[CAP1]

and that is what this thread was about.. the risk is simply not that high.

lazs

tell thatr to the families of all the dead cops. tell that to the family of trhe cop that walked into a dunkin donuts a couple months ago and got shot in the face for no other reason than he was wearing a uniform.

 a cops risk is never predictable. a roofers risk is VERY predicatble.

this is getting nuts.........

[DREDIOCK]

the difference being roofers and other high risk employees risk their life on behalf of themselves.  cops, firemen, and ems risk it for us.

every cop and teacher in the usa should start at 100K per year.

teachers are already well enough paid for the time they work.
If they actually worked year roundand got paid for year round work
They'd do just fine.

Besides. You know the score of teaachers pay when you get into the gig.
You also know that if your looking to make alot of money.
Teaching isnt the directoion you should aspire to.

Note : I have no complaints about what cops make Even though your average cop outside of a big city is probably less at risk then me as a contractor.

They have all sorts of other factors they have to deal with. that results in them earning every penny they get From dealing with idiots in the general public to the idiots they have to take orders from.

I personally woudnt have the patience to deal with either.
I'd probably start shooting my gun in both directions.