For you law enforcement supporters

[TEXAS20]

deleted 

[Kazzzz]

Well I pretty much just lurk but this thread got me thinking. As a firefighter in northern New Jersey I have a problem with the police and fire are overpaid "line".

In a state where my property taxes are over 10k a year(they'd be cheaper if i lived in a town with paid fire believe it or not), and car insurance is $1000 per year per car, money goes fast.

That being said I can't even afford to live in the town that employs me. So my sister-in-law works IT in Manhatten making over 100k a year with 5 weeks vacation, justify that, oh and by the way no ones life is in her hands. If I make a mistake at work on the ambulance or at a fire someone other than me may die.

<S> Kazz

[bustr]

First, I'm not sure where this thread was supposed to end up. Second, death is death and dangerous jobs are just that.

Police, Firemen and EMT work demanding jobs somethimes under conditions that require the most of their human ability to go above and beyond for their fellow citizens. We do them a great disservice not to recognise that fact as fellow citizens.

I just went through the fatalities reports for a number of states by occupation for 2006. Contact with vehicals in many given forms was the source of death for roughly half of the three professions mentioned above that died for that year. The largest number of deaths by occupation were for truckers and construction workers. A lot of sanitation workers seem to have fatal contact with vehicals also.

Police work and Firefighting rated by non fatal injury of 1 in every 100,000 ranks very high due to the nature of the occupation. But for deaths on the job based on the statisics, police and firefighters dont match up to truckers and construction workers.

As I pointed out, where was this thread supposed to go?

[wrongwayric]

HOLY COW I didn't mean to get such an uproar started but i think we are missing the small point in the article here. There are well paid police officers but the problem is with the smaller communities. They are being invaded by gangbangers/drug lords from the large cities and not only do they not have the resources, but if something happens they are on there own. Would you go out and risk your life day after day, for 10.50 an hour, knowing that the next car or person you stopped may wip a gun on you and shoot you?

Most of these small town cops need to work 2 jobs to make ends meet, they get no insurance from the cities they work for, and there own insurance won't cover them while on duty. IMO it's a shame that we can not protect the security of their families as they are protecting ours.

What this bill is supposed to do, if i understand it right, is to create a national standard of pay and benefits for ALL officers no matter where they work. The only thing i'm not clear on so far is how does a cop in a city that can only afford a 20k salary have the difference made up?

[lazs2]

everyone performs a service for the rest of us and there are always people who are underpaid.   I just pointed out that fire and police using the danger of their jobs as the sole reason for more and more money is pretty silly  in light of the fact that they don't have a particularly dangerous job compared to the most dangerous and that they get paid more than most of the people who have even more dangerous jobs.

How much should they be paid?   how much do we need em?   if they eat up 50% of the entire cities budget.. you might say that they are getting paid too much... that is not the case tho in some areas.. in some areas they are eating up 70-80% of every penny the city takes into the general fund.

How much would be enough?   90%?  100%?

mav.. sorry to hear you were disabled  glad you got enough to survive on tho.. many professions get almost nothing for being entirely crippled..  some state or federal dole below the poverty level.

Like I said.. I would not be able to stand doing the job.. mostly for the politics.   

lazs

[lazs2]

and... I am sorry that rich and his friends can't live on 90% of their income when they retire at age 50 and have to get another job to support their lifestyle.

I hate to break it to you rich but most of us have to make lifestyle changes when we retire.  if you had put money away in an ira at the same time (me too) we would be better off..

I feel pretty lucky because I will get about 50% of my income when from my public service when I retire.   I believe that some in my profession are way overpaid and some are way underpaid.. depends on where they live.

That being said... I have probly contibuted more to disabled vets and police benevolent funds than most of you who are ranting but unable to follow simple facts.

Like...  if 20 cops die one year in philly or wherever that makes the whole profession more dangerous than say.. roofing or wildcatting or long haul trucking or even being a flagger for the highway dept.

lazs

[wrongwayric]

LAZS2 i got 10.50 here in my hand come over and let me plug ya in the shoulder ok?

I think i could understand the low pay in a small town, but absolutely no benefits is total B.S. IMO. It's not that the officers can not afford the benefits, most towns can not even get the benefits for there officers.

I applaud your giving, but then again i tend to believe you live in a large town so who knows if that money even went to where you gave it? Unless you live in a town of 4,000 or less you don't know what it's like for a cop on the beat out there. You don't shout on the radio and have 10 buddies come screaming to back you up. You shout and hope to god someone heard you and at least 1 cop shows.

[vorticon]

You really need to get up on a roof sometime in the heat of the summer and do a days work and then get back to me.

lazs

shingling?
spent the past 2 days doing just that. the pay more than compensates for the danger, up here anyway...

danger is obviously not the only aspect that affects pay, soooo

$10.50 isnt even enough to cover the other aspects of a cops work.  a pay raise to cover the danger sounds more than reasonable to me.

[Rich46yo]

and... I am sorry that rich and his friends can't live on 90% of their income when they retire at age 50 and have to get another job to support their lifestyle.

90% of my income? Youv been sniffing those roofing fumes to long. Now your the Police retirements benefits expert?

"90% of my income" Haha, thats a good one.

[bustr]

Laz,

I thought insurance companies for roofing contractors have started requiring they mount anchor points to the ridge line and safety cable workers with harnesses? I've been doing that for years because I used to climb walls in the sierras. Just seemed like the same dangers were there in both activities. Accidents happen in both cases.

By the way in most states I checked roofing fatalities were lower than police total fatalities. About equal to the number of police fatalities due to vehicals only. Not with homocides included. Maybe I remembered the insurance company bit correctly then.....

[Elfie]

I did it in my late teens ......here in florida...I was a helper who unloaded the shingles/tiles from the conveyor onto the roof...and then ran the magnet to pick up all the nails in the grass.  hated it.......but working with fiberglass at another job was far more taxing...and dangerous.  I actually used to have to bathe in acetone before I went home.

Thats not the same thing. Try working on that same roof all day long instead of doing 20 - 30 minutes work, then coming down and driving to the next stop.

I have worked on roofs all day long. My knees and lower back are shot from standing at an angle all day long. I've almost fallen off more than once.

[Elfie]

I thought insurance companies for roofing contractors have started requiring they mount anchor points to the ridge line and safety cable workers with harnesses?

OSHA requires that, and insurance companies probably do as well. Yet.....how are you going to hook up the safety line w/o first climbing up to the ridge line and hooking it up? And how are you going to get down from that roof with your safety equipment without walking back up to the ridge line and disconnecting it? There is no way around it, going up the first time and coming down the last time you are unprotected.

There was a siding guy out here that had his safety rope and harness on and he fell, he splatted because his harness failed.

[Kazzzz]

Yes people love to compare fire and police to the private sector. Think about private sector jobs where they are responsible for other peoples lives. What do they get paid? How many private sector jobs see death on a daily basis? Or must wash the blood of others off themselves before going home to their families? Roofer isn't showing up on that list, is it?

Danger to ones self isn't the only factor towards the pay. I agree there are more dangerous jobs out there other than firefighter, but how many include endangering yourself for others?


<S> Kazz

[CAP1]

everyone performs a service for the rest of us and there are always people who are underpaid.   I just pointed out that fire and police using the danger of their jobs as the sole reason for more and more money is pretty silly  in light of the fact that they don't have a particularly dangerous job compared to the most dangerous and that they get paid more than most of the people who have even more dangerous jobs.

How much should they be paid?   how much do we need em?   if they eat up 50% of the entire cities budget.. you might say that they are getting paid too much... that is not the case tho in some areas.. in some areas they are eating up 70-80% of every penny the city takes into the general fund.

How much would be enough?   90%?  100%?

mav.. sorry to hear you were disabled  glad you got enough to survive on tho.. many professions get almost nothing for being entirely crippled..  some state or federal dole below the poverty level.

Like I said.. I would not be able to stand doing the job.. mostly for the politics.   

lazs

wel...i perform a service to the community. i fix their cars. and it's dangerous too. i walk under 3,000# plus cars 3-5 times a day. i guess i should ask for a raise, huh?
what if the lift gives out and a car falls on me? o yea..there's as much chance of that as a skilled roofer falling off of a roof.

maybe look at it another way. we all pay insurance for our cars and homes(hopefully). and we all think it's to much(especially here in the PRNJ). but the one time that ya need it, it's there....in my case when my stang got totaled....insurance more than covered my car. it was there when i really needed it.
 try looking at cops or firefighters the same. they get paid what they get paid. you may go years without needing either of them. but then one night, in the little hours, you wake up beause you hear a noise. you notice a funny smell......house burning. dial 911. police most likely therein less then 3 or 4 minutes. they help you get family out, and help the firefighters with your home. now at that moment they were worth 100 times what they get paid. while you and i sleep, their up doing their jobs.
 they protect us. they help us. they're kinda like our great men and women in the armed forces......THEY do what the rest of us can't/don't/won't. i could never do their job. a burning building? eff that! i ain't goin in there!!!!!
 a wife beater in my patrol car? chances are good that he'll need an ambulance before we get him to the station. if he makes it there, he may just find that broken step in the station.
 they are to be admired. and they ARE underpaid.

ok....my tired rant is over...for now.......

<<S>>

[DREDIOCK]

shingling?
spent the past 2 days doing just that. the pay more than compensates for the danger, up here anyway...

danger is obviously not the only aspect that affects pay, soooo

$10.50 isnt even enough to cover the other aspects of a cops work.  a pay raise to cover the danger sounds more than reasonable to me.

A whole two days? LMAO

remember. not all roofs are created equal
I can show you a few roofs I probably couldnt come up with enough money to pay you to get you to walk on. Let alone work on.