Author Topic: Conspiracy theroys, your personal contact whit them  (Read 1994 times)

Offline SPKmes

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Re: Conspiracy theroys, your personal contact whit them
« Reply #60 on: June 30, 2008, 05:27:04 PM »
I've heard the usual conspiracy theories, but there is one which possibly could merit serious discussion at least to disprove it.  The theory that microwave ovens change or mutate food which could be harmful when ingested.  I always thought microwaves were nothing more than radio waves, and they cook by molecular friction.  Some folks are claiming this somehow "changes" the molecular or atomic structure of food to where it may be carcinogenic.  Is there anything to this?  Or is it as I think it to be BS?  If it's BS, then why?  Is it possible for microwaves to alter the molecular structure of food to where it's toxic?



Les

















Nuke a banana and tell us what you think.

Offline Motherland

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« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 06:18:15 PM by Motherland »

Offline lasersailor184

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Re: Conspiracy theroys, your personal contact whit them
« Reply #62 on: June 30, 2008, 06:46:25 PM »
First off, leave Jesse Ventura out of this.  He's gone off the deep end.  And I don't mean I only think he's weird because he switched from Republican to Democrat.

I mean he's 2 computer beeps away from smearing feces on his face and re-enacting Romeo and Juliette in a one man play naked in Central Park.  Dude's diddlying crazy.


Second?  I ain't just an engineer.  I'm an architectural engineer.  That means I know exactly how to design buildings.  I know exactly how to build them.  I know exactly what causes failures.

Past that, I've been studying Fire Protection, with my Thesis being designed to PREVENT steel failure due to fire.


The failure wasn't some great mystery that the government is hiding from us.  First off, the building was designed to survive the impact force of smaller jet.  However the engineers did not consider that the impact would blow all of the Spray On Fireproofing off of the columns. 

Steel itself is a great structural material.  Hell, without Steel concrete itself would be useless.  The problem is that steel has VERY poor thermal properties in relation to heat.  That's why we use Metal for pots and pans and not wood.  The structural steel with fire proofing could last many hours, perhaps even days.  Without fire proofing, it would be lucky to hit half an hour.

Most steel is only loaded to 50%-75% of the capacity (the latter being if the loading properties are EXPLICITLY known).  60-65% is a good average for us to work with.  Now if you take the thermal properties of steel, it hits 65% capacity at about 1000 degrees fahrenheit.

But when you consider that roughly 1/8 of all the steel columns were severed on the buildings, suddenly all the other columns must carry the load.  Not taking into account wind loading due to asymmetrical column loading, the columns were loaded up 85-90%.  This failure occurs at 850 degrees Fahrenheit. 

And in case you can't figure out what this information means, it means that steel doesn't have to melt to fail.  And just for toejams and giggles, at 1450 degrees Fahrenheit, most steel becomes roughly the consistency of soft gum.


Second, the pancake analogy for how these numbnuts think that a building should fail is childish at best.  Each individual floor is only designed to hold roughly 100 pounds per square foot at MAX.  However, they are not designed to hold the actual weight of the building above it.  And for every second the building is falling, the force of the section doubles.  So in roughly that first 3/4 of a second it took for the first failure to fall to the next, not only would that floor NOT be able to hold it, but it would have to hold 175% of the total weight.  It wasn't just the weight of the next floor up that was falling.  It was the weight of MANY floors.  In the next second of fall it has roughly 300% the force, or it's hitting 2x HEAVIER than the top section itself.


As to the damage to the other WTC buildings?  Well that ain't hard to figure out.  Many millions of tons of FLAMING WRECKAGE fell upon a complex of buildings all near the base of what were some of the tallest buildings known to man.  Again, it is simply childish to think that a falling person wouldn't crush a few ant hills when he hit the ground.
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Offline Motherland

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Re: Conspiracy theroys, your personal contact whit them
« Reply #63 on: June 30, 2008, 06:50:53 PM »
Don't listen to LaserSailor, he's a government sheep.















 :P

Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Conspiracy theroys, your personal contact whit them
« Reply #64 on: June 30, 2008, 07:32:17 PM »
you are quite wrong i don't play football this is INK



Well of course not anymore.
Cant have Batman playing football





Contemplating Seppuku?

LMAO
« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 07:35:25 PM by DREDIOCK »
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Offline Serenity

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Re: Conspiracy theroys, your personal contact whit them
« Reply #65 on: June 30, 2008, 07:48:20 PM »
Serenity, that "maybe" uncertainty factor applies to any and all events. 

EXACTLY!!!

Offline Leslie

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Re: Conspiracy theroys, your personal contact whit them
« Reply #66 on: June 30, 2008, 08:55:38 PM »




Nuke a banana and tell us what you think.




I'm afraid nuking a banana would tell me nothing far as molecular mutation or atomic polarity change is concerned.  However thank you for your reply.



Les



Offline ink

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Re: Conspiracy theroys, your personal contact whit them
« Reply #67 on: June 30, 2008, 09:05:10 PM »
Well of course not anymore.
Cant have Batman playing football


(Image removed from quote.)


Contemplating Seppuku?

LMAO


actually no

 i am checking out my sweet Tiger katana, made by Paul Chen, approximately 2000 layers, folded 8 times.

as a matter of fact tomorrow i will be doing some Tameshigiri.

Offline Dichotomy

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Re: Conspiracy theroys, your personal contact whit them
« Reply #68 on: June 30, 2008, 09:50:42 PM »
First off, leave Jesse Ventura out of this.  He's gone off the deep end.  And I don't mean I only think he's weird because he switched from Republican to Democrat.

I mean he's 2 computer beeps away from smearing feces on his face and re-enacting Romeo and Juliette in a one man play naked in Central Park.  Dude's boinking crazy.


Second?  I ain't just an engineer.  I'm an architectural engineer.  That means I know exactly how to design buildings.  I know exactly how to build them.  I know exactly what causes failures.

Past that, I've been studying Fire Protection, with my Thesis being designed to PREVENT steel failure due to fire.


The failure wasn't some great mystery that the government is hiding from us.  First off, the building was designed to survive the impact force of smaller jet.  However the engineers did not consider that the impact would blow all of the Spray On Fireproofing off of the columns. 

Steel itself is a great structural material.  Hell, without Steel concrete itself would be useless.  The problem is that steel has VERY poor thermal properties in relation to heat.  That's why we use Metal for pots and pans and not wood.  The structural steel with fire proofing could last many hours, perhaps even days.  Without fire proofing, it would be lucky to hit half an hour.

Most steel is only loaded to 50%-75% of the capacity (the latter being if the loading properties are EXPLICITLY known).  60-65% is a good average for us to work with.  Now if you take the thermal properties of steel, it hits 65% capacity at about 1000 degrees fahrenheit.

But when you consider that roughly 1/8 of all the steel columns were severed on the buildings, suddenly all the other columns must carry the load.  Not taking into account wind loading due to asymmetrical column loading, the columns were loaded up 85-90%.  This failure occurs at 850 degrees Fahrenheit. 

And in case you can't figure out what this information means, it means that steel doesn't have to melt to fail.  And just for poops and giggles, at 1450 degrees Fahrenheit, most steel becomes roughly the consistency of soft gum.


Second, the pancake analogy for how these numbnuts think that a building should fail is childish at best.  Each individual floor is only designed to hold roughly 100 pounds per square foot at MAX.  However, they are not designed to hold the actual weight of the building above it.  And for every second the building is falling, the force of the section doubles.  So in roughly that first 3/4 of a second it took for the first failure to fall to the next, not only would that floor NOT be able to hold it, but it would have to hold 175% of the total weight.  It wasn't just the weight of the next floor up that was falling.  It was the weight of MANY floors.  In the next second of fall it has roughly 300% the force, or it's hitting 2x HEAVIER than the top section itself.


As to the damage to the other WTC buildings?  Well that ain't hard to figure out.  Many millions of tons of FLAMING WRECKAGE fell upon a complex of buildings all near the base of what were some of the tallest buildings known to man.  Again, it is simply childish to think that a falling person wouldn't crush a few ant hills when he hit the ground.

THANK YOU!!!!

I don't have your formal education but I have learned a lot about structural engineering with 15 years in the telecommunications and light pole industry.  I've done thousands of designs and studied many building codes (AASHTO, IBC, CBC, UBC, FBC, Fatigue Design, etc). I've seen and investigated many many structural failures on steel pole and beams and I almost literally get nauseated when the conspiracy theorists start talking their drivel. Most people also don't realize that steel is very flexible and easily affected by heat.  Vortex shedding could also be considered due to the stresses involved and I've contemplated this from time to time due to the sheer force of the shock effect of the impact(s). 

Ink, no disrespect intended, but catastrophic structural failure has many faces.  I've seen some really weird stuff when looking at something that fell over and shouldn't have under the circumstances.

I really don't think that Jesse Ventura is a credible expert in this case.  The explosions could easily be attributed to seismic activity opening gas mains and exposing them to an ignition source.  In fact, the seismic effects of the two towers falling could have shaken bldg 7 to the point that it failed structurally.   
« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 10:03:33 PM by Dichotomy »
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Conspiracy theroys, your personal contact whit them
« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2008, 09:52:19 PM »

actually no

 i am checking out my sweet Tiger katana, made by Paul Chen, approximately 2000 layers, folded 8 times.

as a matter of fact tomorrow i will be doing some Tameshigiri.

dude.
I think you may be taking my commentary entirely too seriously.

I'm just busting your chops  ;)
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Offline Slash27

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Re: Conspiracy theroys, your personal contact whit them
« Reply #70 on: June 30, 2008, 10:14:05 PM »


as a matter of fact tomorrow i will be doing some Tameshigiri.

You do and you'll clean it up.

Offline 59funkman

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Re: Conspiracy theroys, your personal contact whit them
« Reply #71 on: June 30, 2008, 10:25:23 PM »
OK a new list,
What conspiracy theory's have you personally run in to?

The French 9/11 dude.  I was looking at his website and noticed a photo of "Pentagon cruise missile wreckage" that was part of a B757 slat actuator.  I knew this because I helped design part of it.  I emailed him and he politely added my correction to his site.  However on another site I got accused of possibly being a "government disinformationalist" or something like that.

Offline sluggish

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Re: Conspiracy theroys, your personal contact whit them
« Reply #72 on: June 30, 2008, 10:30:09 PM »
Paul is still alive.

Offline Slash27

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Re: Conspiracy theroys, your personal contact whit them
« Reply #73 on: June 30, 2008, 10:37:06 PM »


do you know that the towers where designed so that fire CANNOT move from floor to floor.


Did ever occur to you that would be under some what normal conditions and not after a passenger jet hit the building? I mean is really that long of walk for you?


And as far WTC 7 goes. What was the point of the goverment or whoever taking it down? Did you ever question what the point of that might be?

And to repeat what has been covered at length, steel does not have to melt to fail. Can you understand that?






I told myself I wasnt going to post in this damn thread yet here I am. Im so weak.

Offline SPKmes

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Re: Conspiracy theroys, your personal contact whit them
« Reply #74 on: June 30, 2008, 11:46:37 PM »



I'm afraid nuking a banana would tell me nothing far as molecular mutation or atomic polarity change is concerned.  However thank you for your reply.



Les





Have you ever seen a banana that has?