An Idea - Campaign Series

[a4944]

Here is a thread on capture lines that was tried a ways back in MA ...

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,193413.0.html

Perhaps we can use this to mark which bases are capturable.  I'm not suggesting one line of capture but multiple lines.  There was a complaint last time we had capture on that attackers avoided the defenders.  We could have multiple lines but not be wide open so we bring the sides together more.  The lines of capture could also be used to make the rear bases uncapturable or sequenced so they could not be captured until the front line bases are captured for the supply route concept. 

Bug, I'm not against a multiple week war with a revolving plane set.  My request is that they are independent rounds and that the results of the first round do not impact the second round.  Each round starts balanced for the players. We could also tweak between rounds as they are independent rather than being committed to a multiweek war. 

The game already has an automatic strat system built in.  Perhaps we just need to tune that so hitting strats does have an impact liking losing dar when the HQ goes down.  It would be worth defending.  If a factory is down, the bases don't get rebuilt automatically, as there will be no supply trains.  We would need C47s though to manually resuply.  You do need a way to manually bring a base or factory back up.  We don't want to destoy fights for a long period of time.  Whatever system is chosen, we need a way for players to make a difference.  If a factory goes down, a concerted C47 supply effort should bring it back up.  We don't want to shut down play, make a hopeless situtation for a night, and have players leave.

Venom

[TheBug]

I think that the 60 base capture is a good idea, it will take a concerted effort by the entire side to take a base.

Forgive my ignorance but I don't fly in the main alot and need some clarification of the "Perkies". I am...lets say, not of the highest caliber pilot, or enough of one to fly the better performing aircraft in the main, my perk points would not allow me to fly the plane of choice. Is that what you are suggesting here? I understand the theory behind it and agree with Venoms idea that the better crates would be towards the rear giving a "back against the wall" appearance for the winning side. If you could, please explain the perk point idea.

If you look under support-help on HTC's main website there is a complete description of perk points.  But in a nutshell you have it right.  Some planes would cost points, by flying other planes of the same type(fighter or bomber) you would earn points allowing you to access the perked rides. 

[Chemdawg]

Got it....

[Chilli]

Yes, it does sound cool.  

Here is an idea to get rid of the overnight milkrun allegations (bound to pop up -- we were just fortunate that we have been able to monitor our own countrymen's actions).

Idea:

Map is automatically reset to a default setting at a reasonable afternoon CST time.  The victory points are tallied at a reasonable evening CST time.  Everything in off hours is free for all as long as it doesn't pork the map.  This gives all us off hour players an AvA map to have fun with. 

I am seriously stuck on this Arena, and these sort of suggestions, and those who try to make it happen are truly welcome to a beer on me any time.

[Mister Fork]

Great ideas guys.  We'll hash them out.  Btw - we do have a development group for these kind of ideas - if you wish to be part of it please let us know.

[humble]

I think it sounds good.

As for the C-47's you could make them avialable only from a couple of rear area fields. That way it would take alot of coordination and a sustained cap for them to be effective. I'd actually rather see the M-3's eliminated and only C-47s...but with the above conditions.

With the 60 troop # your talking about a serious effort to successfully capture an impertant rear area base. You'd need an exceptionally coordinated effort vs any true defense. With a realistic 7 goon's required (figure you'd lose one somehow) + Jabo + CAP+escort for the goons its interesting. Also alot of possible deception...goons would be 25 min or more so alot of ability (and need) for slight of hand and also the big plus that a determined lone defender could make a difference if he can "smell" the goons out.

[Damionte]

Yes, it does sound cool.  

Here is an idea to get rid of the overnight milkrun allegations (bound to pop up -- we were just fortunate that we have been able to monitor our own countrymen's actions).

Idea:

Map is automatically reset to a default setting at a reasonable afternoon CST time.  The victory points are tallied at a reasonable evening CST time.  Everything in off hours is free for all as long as it doesn't pork the map.  This gives all us off hour players an AvA map to have fun with. 

I am seriously stuck on this Arena, and these sort of suggestions, and those who try to make it happen are truly welcome to a beer on me any time.

I don't like this idea. It makes the effort put in by the off hours players useless. There's no point in logging in at all. If you're only going to count the actions during a certain time of the day, you may as well lock the server during off hours.

I would rather let people milk run than to tell them they can't play when I am not online.

[a4944]

What is wrong with C47s?  I like them.   I even likes resupplying as a change of pace sometimes.  I would like to see them at all fields. 

I think 60 troops is extreme for the number of players we have.  Some nights have less than 10 players per side.  I would prefer lower downtimes for towns.  Perhaps 30 troops with 30 minute downtime for buildings in a town, less downtime if needed.  It would take coordination to take a field because you would have to drop a town and get troops in fast.  A town would start popping before a single person could take it completly down and start dropping troops.  A group of people could still pork but you can't stop that. 

Venom

[sparow]

Hi Bug, hi all!

This is a very good idea, full of potential. It gently mixes the best of "old" AvA setups with the best of the "new" AvA wars, adding new points of interest by bringing into play the ground vehicle element. I defend that AH is, mainly, an air combat environment, but I also understand that AH community evolved and received many fine elements that enjoy driving combat vehicles. In my opinion, no war or scenario will be complete without ground vehicle battles and the possibility of capturing ground. We must only be careful in finding the right balance to make it challenging but not boring, fun but not dweeberish. All anti-milking measures must be implemented. Troop number needed for capture set at 60 is quite allright, as long downtimes for objects and strats. Also the built-in strat sistem working is a must. Loved the secret supply depots idea. Yes, some fields must be made uncapturable. Four weeks is too demanding, one week wars is what the whole idea is about, why not rotate this one week war with the big three week wars?

All in all, a good idea.

[TheBug]

Ok guys here is my more polished version of my Campaign Series- North Africa setup, using a 3-week war setup. The three weeks allows for commander input and the ability for people to impact "the war".  This setup could be done as a one week setup possibly adjusting for strats mid week and eliminating the rarity by basing better planes at third line bases.  It is still in need of fine tuning I am sure and as always I am open to everyone's opinion.  I hope it sounds worth trying and that possibly the staffers will give it a try.  Again some setup issues may not work as I intend due to limitations with in-game setup tools.  Take a look and at least toss your input in as to whether or not it sounds worth trying.  It is a work in progress, so don't consider this to be definitive.

Going to use the Tunisia map, here is an image of what I propose to be for the starting bases. 



Axis are Bishop with 13 Airbases, 4 vehicle bases and two ports.  Allied are Knights with 13 airbases, 5 vehicle bases and 4 ports.

Front Line Base worth 1 point: A16,A17,V36,V37,A26,A2      A25,A24,A34,A21,A35,V39,V45

Second Line Base worth 3 points: P33,V51,A31,A30,V49,A50,A4       P8,A10,V38,A5,V12,A7,A40,A6

Third Line Bases worth 5 points:     A32,A20,A18     P46,A15,P23, P28

Strategic Targets worth 10 points: A1,A19,A27      A24,P22


Starting planeset with rarity factor-

Allied:
   Hurri Mk I       1.0
   P40-E            1.0
   Hurri Mk IID    0.2
   Spit Vb            0.1
   Boston Mk III  0.3
   C-47              1.0
        Jeep              1.0
        M-8               1.0   
        M-3               1.0

Axis:
   C202             1.0
   Bf109e-4        1.0
   Bf109f-4         0.1
   Bf110c-4        0.2
   Ju87d            1.0
   Ju-88a-4        0.3
   C-47              1.0
        Jeep              1.0
        M-8               1.0   
        M-3               1.0



Strats/Downtimes:
               
               Hangars and towns down a fixed 30 minutes.  Fuel,ord,troops and radar start out at 30 minutes but adjusted each week per my original post.  The extra Radar strat can be used to represent the road/rail system and open for interdiction.  The commanders would be allowed 3 adjustments in their setup mid week, to adjust for enemy offensives in a sector.  This would be increase by 1 additional adjustment per each 20% of the extra radar facility left standing.    <-- just a rough idea

Number of troops will be open to adjustment as the  setup plays out but thinking of initially starting at 50 then adjusting to make the front fluid yet limit the milkrunning.

   

Again shooting for the nature of an open arena utilizing a limited historical planeset with the aspect of a players efforts have further reaching impact along the lines of the obviously popular war theme.

Have to run, but just wanted to keep the idea flowing.

Gonna work on the planesets for week 2 and three and will  post them soon.

[Shifty]

Bug,

I personally think your idea is brilliant. This is what the AVA should and could be. Like anything tried it's going to have a few bugs no pun... It will never be perfect, but it's bringing the best of the Sim and the Wargame together to make it a challenge for both furballers, and warfighters, and those like myself who like a little of both. I like how you're doing the rarity factor, and the fact that historic airframes for the Heather and time period are used makes it superior to the current war scenarios.
 Great idea, great work. I hope this gets a chance to run.
<S>

[potsNpans]

I'm only a newbie, however the more time spent here in AH I find a great deal to appreciate. The hard work and excellent ideas from the staff and this community are outstanding. Great potential here, kudos gentlemen.

[Chilli]

Planeset obviously favors Axis.  I know you will disagree, and historically I love it.  I wouldn't touch it from an Allied perspective.  The only balancing factor between the two planesets could only be found in numbers.  However, few virtual pilots will choose to be cannon fodder for very long.

Any arguement that P40E could stand up to the Axis tater launchers, is lost on me.  Spit V, maybe against 1 or possibly 2 with a good pilot, but the flood of players will be to Axis with the choice of rides.  Sorry, if I am not enthusiastic about the planeset, but I do love the idea up to that point.

Starting planeset with rarity factor-

Allied:
   Hurri Mk I       1.0
   P40-E            1.0
   Hurri Mk IID    0.2
   Spit Vb            0.1
   Boston Mk III  0.3
   C-47              1.0
        Jeep              1.0
        M-8               1.0   
        M-3               1.0

Axis:
   C202             1.0
   Bf109e-4        1.0
   Bf109f-4         0.1
   Bf110c-4        0.2
   Ju87d            1.0
   Ju-88a-4        0.3
   C-47              1.0
        Jeep              1.0
        M-8               1.0   
        M-3               1.0

[Motherland]

Axis tater launchers? The only plane on the axis side with a good armament is the 109F

Try using the 2 MG/FF's on the 109E and 110C and then come back to us. It's possible to bring someone down, but not much easier than it is with 8x .303's, and MUCH less than 6 .50 cals.

[Shifty]

It's historic and sometimes History favors one side over another. I'd like to see these kind of wars over what we have now.
This is great and I hope it comes to pass. Sooner or later each side will have an advantage. This system Bug has worked up looks really promising