Author Topic: UK to sign contracts for 2 new super-carriers...  (Read 2090 times)

Offline Dowding

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Re: UK to sign contracts for 2 new super-carriers...
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2008, 10:56:33 AM »
Reschke - like that is ever going to happen. Ours is the more senior service, remember. ;)

Has the US decommissioned a nuclear powered carrier yet? Any costs on that?
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Offline crockett

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Re: UK to sign contracts for 2 new super-carriers...
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2008, 11:05:59 AM »
You can't rule the world with a fishing boat...

 :P

Have you seen the Canadian Navy..  :rofl
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Offline olddobe

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Re: UK to sign contracts for 2 new super-carriers...
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2008, 11:32:30 AM »
Hmmm,CV without cats!The Brits introduced the catapult and metal flight decks.It becomes clearer to me that the good old U.S.of A. is the only world power trying to bankroll a large Armed foce and particularily a large Navy.I think the Brits are basing their strategy on CV's off of the Falkland war.It worked ok then,and I guess they are thinking leave well enough alone.China and India seem to be trying to join the big boys in the building of ships.I believe China with a large navy would pose a real threat to world peace.
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Offline Furball

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Re: UK to sign contracts for 2 new super-carriers...
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2008, 12:45:06 PM »
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.00h00100100a003

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.6496



Quote
Carrier design is an exceptionally complex three-dimensional puzzle in which flight deck, hangar deck, stability and sea-keeping requirements interact. Initial studies for CVF encompassed six different candidate ships across a range of capabilities and aircraft types and led to the adoption of the technologically advanced, innovative and highly capable “Design Delta”, centred on MoD’s choice of the STOVL (short take-off and vertical landing) Joint Combat Aircraft (JCA).

The adaptability of Design Delta is unique and has involved extensive modelling, computer analysis and tank tests.

Some of the innovations in the design include:

First adaptable design that, while configured to operate STOVL aircraft, can be altered later in its projected 40-50 year service life to accommodate catapults and arrestor gear to fly conventional CV (Carrier Variant) aircraft;
Location of main engines high in the ship, reducing penetration of large downtakes and exhausts deep in the hull;
First full integrated waste management system to meet projected future environmental standards;
First carrier with split “island” superstructure - improving control of flight deck operations.
The Aircraft Carrier Alliance has worked exhaustively to achieve value for money. The result is a design capable of operating more than twice as many larger and heavier aircraft compared with existing Invincible class – but carrying a similar sized crew – and with increased strategic capability.

Design Delta also displaces about three times as much as an Invincible, has four times the internal hull volume, carries 70 percent more ship and aircraft fuel, has 75 percent more unrefuelled range and accommodation to the very latest and highest standards.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 12:47:45 PM by Furball »
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Offline Toad

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Re: UK to sign contracts for 2 new super-carriers...
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2008, 12:45:32 PM »
Diesel powered Kitty Hawk is being decommissioned. We could probably cut you a real deal on her. She was launched in 1961.

Then you could get Enterprise in 2013.

Kennedy is already mothballed but you take all three you could probably get free shipping and the mothballed Constellation thrown in for free.

These might take just a bit of retrofit; you know, new coat of paint and such.   :)
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Offline lasersailor184

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Re: UK to sign contracts for 2 new super-carriers...
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2008, 12:52:13 PM »
Diesel powered Kitty Hawk is being decommissioned. We could probably cut you a real deal on her. She was launched in 1961.

Then you could get Enterprise in 2013.

Kennedy is already mothballed but you take all three you could probably get free shipping and the mothballed Constellation thrown in for free.

These might take just a bit of retrofit; you know, new coat of paint and such.   :)

You're right.  It's about time this BBS got ourselves a fleet of Aircraft carriers.  I say we stock them with Corsairs only.

The members will have to BYOS (bring your own seafire).
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Offline Furball

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Re: UK to sign contracts for 2 new super-carriers...
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2008, 12:53:30 PM »
You're right.  It's about time this BBS got ourselves a fleet of Aircraft carriers.  I say we stock them with Corsairs only.

The members will have to BYOS (bring your own seafire).

Fun police would just lancstuka them.  :(
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Offline RTHolmes

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Re: UK to sign contracts for 2 new super-carriers...
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2008, 01:53:32 PM »
yeah we only get outdated rubbish from the US like Trident, E3, Javelin etc :rofl

1 Nimitz class or 2 QE class is hardly worth arguing - we get 2 very capable task groups instead of 1. similar capability too - about 90 aircraft for either. except the QE class is waaaay more modern and only needs a crew of ~600, rather than ~3000 for Nimitz class. purchase cost may be similar but i suspect the QEs will be considerably cheaper to run.

our defense spending is 2nd only to the US, but still only 15% of the US :confused: so compact and effective is the way we like it. looks like the right move to me :aok
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Offline Reschke

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Re: UK to sign contracts for 2 new super-carriers...
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2008, 02:30:37 PM »
Reschke - like that is ever going to happen. Ours is the more senior service, remember. ;)

Has the US decommissioned a nuclear powered carrier yet? Any costs on that?

We don't care about costs on stuff like that we would probably just sink the thing and let the reactor run its course.
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Offline Toad

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Re: UK to sign contracts for 2 new super-carriers...
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2008, 02:33:21 PM »
We don't care about costs on stuff like that we would probably just sink the thing and let the reactor run its course.

... right outside the Golden Gate.   :devil
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: UK to sign contracts for 2 new super-carriers...
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2008, 04:58:24 PM »
Yeah refresh my memory you navy types but didn't the 3, or 4, ship gas turbined Kittyhawk class have high pressure steam catapults? And they weren't much bigger then this new Brit class right? And no doubt the technology is much more refined now and miniaturized then when the Kitty was launched.

Actually I thought the Lizzies were being planned in the 40,000 ton class. So what your ending up with is a legitimate supercarrier.

And dont forget that part of the reason you are leaning towards STVOL F-35s is due to the outstanding service of your Harrier force. There are some Plus's going the STVOL route, such as quicker turnarounds, easier operation/safer in high sea states, and reduced cost.

And dont forget. While they will be on Navy ships they will be flown and operated by the RAF. And the RAF has always leaned towards STVOL.

Your going to have to think outside the box a little here. The F-35 is being designed to be probably the least labor intensive fighter aircraft ever produced. Land em, load em, gas em, and fight them. Time and time again with as little down time as technically possible. Even the stealth coating can be touched up with a paint brush. The amount of sorties and firepower the Lizzies will be able to sustain is going to be unprecedented. STVOL requires less deck space, less upkeep, and will be able to sustain combat Ops in the 30% range more then conventional CV F-35 aircraft.

Even better the RAF has tons of experience in STVOL operations, training, technical expertise.

Lizzie battle groups will consist of advanced air warfare DDs, advanced SSNs, very capable amphibious warfare ships, and about every advanced western weapons system you can think of.

But dont look at the STVOL option with such a narrow mind. You buy expensive systems based on the mission you will need them for. You dont buy them just "to keep up with the Yanks".
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 04:59:59 PM by Rich46yo »
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Offline Dowding

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Re: UK to sign contracts for 2 new super-carriers...
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2008, 05:14:50 PM »
I'm surprised that we are getting them to be honest. I think this and the French 2nd big carrier designed along the same lines (non-nuclear by the way) is a sign that Britain and France want to be able assert EU muscle anywhere in the world - with an eye on China in particular.

By the way, someone mentioned the Falklands War. I think the lessons of that conflict are finally being learned - we could presently not hold onto the islands and their resources with the current Royal Navy. With just one of these new carrier groups it would be much easier than in 1982.
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Offline Maverick

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Re: UK to sign contracts for 2 new super-carriers...
« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2008, 11:50:48 PM »
IMO, such as that's worth, a non cat capable carrier is pretty darn stupid. That means every single aircraft that the ship has MUST be a vtol. You have no other options so the missions of the ship and the force it will project will be rather limited in scope. If you can't put an awacs system, an anti sub package, a tanker, an EW system you are hanging your strike team out to dry not to mention cutting your early warning about threats above the surface to a minimum of over the horizon for the screen. That's pretty darn silly, again IMO.
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Offline Yeager

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Re: UK to sign contracts for 2 new super-carriers...
« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2008, 11:59:47 PM »
There was a time when the Fleets of England ruled the seven seas.  Tell you now, I wish they still did, the morals of England are morals I will defend.  I have always been proud to be
associated so historically with that nation.

This is indeed a good move in the right direction.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 12:01:19 AM by Yeager »
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Offline ian5440

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Re: UK to sign contracts for 2 new super-carriers...
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2008, 12:04:56 AM »
 :aok
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