Can we call it yet?

[VonMessa]

maybe im over stepping my bounds, but maybe you should give axis atleast lancasters. just a thought

Yuk.

Maybe we should all masturbate with cheese graters.

[Shifty]

This is axis vs allies I say no to mixing up the planes. It's bad enough they have to use our c47. Now that they have the whiblewind they don't have to use our m16 but to me it clearly outclasses the m16 so I want access to it for the allies.  Since allies don't have a jet fighter should the allies be given access.


Where does it stop.

Flat that's what makes BOA bogus, it's not a historical battle. It's a made up strat game using a flight sim. F4U1Cs fighting against Bf-109Fs is just as absurd as using Axis B-17s.
There's not one thing historical about BOA. Good question where does it stop? The best idea for an historical war is Bugs campaign series he's working on.
<S>

[Chilli]

Before we go dismissing the whole thing.  I think we were on to something with the B17 and it's comparison to the P108 in Shifty's link.  Not just for the BOA which is about over, but as a replacement for missing Axis heavy bombers.  I bet Trukk and the 78th would make good use of them.  If skinned differently, and showing Italian markings, I bet they would make for some interesting screen shots.

   It is good to hear both sides still.  And I am encouraged by the positive lessons that I am learning from intelligent discussions in this forum.

[Odee]

Nice idea there with the P.109...  would give us Allies something slow to shoot at.

But I digress...  If the strats are sucha pain, why not go back to pure air war?

BoA?
 

[Easyscor]

The P.108 comes close to matching the B17 in many ways, one of it's chief designers worked on the B17. It also has the very large advantage of having a similar profile, nothing else comes close to matching an axis heavy bomber profile. The biggest down side is the icon being drug along over the top of it.

[Trukk]

I think the axis disinterest in bombing goes much further than this particular tour.  So far as I know, there are no axis bomber squadrons.  If they exist, I apologize for getting it wrong, but I've never seen more than a single vic of JU88s in the ava arena.  The 234 is an interesting aircraft, but making a perfect drop on a strat I wasn't even able to take it down by 10%.  With JU88s I was able to take down a strat by nearly 30%, so the capability is there, but not the desire.

Part of the reason for the lack of interest is the near defenselessness of the JU88.  Maybe the addition of the JU188 or HE177 would motivate an interest because these bombers were equipped with a heavier defensive armament.

SG2 is a bomber squad and we have escorted them on a couple of missions where they've flown the Ju-88.  But you're right in that generally any bomber fan is going to fly for the Allies because they went big into four engine bombers.

[Shifty]

But you're right in that generally any bomber fan is going to fly for the Allies because they went big into four engine bombers.

And who can blame them. The Avengers are what made all the difference for the Allies. It has nothing to do with the Axis not having the will to fight, or being out thought or out played. I saw the 78th make many a strat attack with 190s.
Lucky for us we had the bigest stick in the game and had a squadron over here that knew how to use them, that gave us a huge advantage. Luttrel, and Old Bull could pretty much make things disapear for us. If we were forced to jabo everything, or had been restricted to B25s or B26s it may have been different. Although I think the Avengers could wear you out with medium bombers as well.

[Trukk]

That being the case, maybe the victory conditions should be different for each team.  Sort of like a scenario where you know one side is going to "lose", but if they hold out beyond X time (or something like that) they win the scenario.

[Shifty]

That being the case, maybe the victory conditions should be different for each team.  Sort of like a scenario where you know one side is going to "lose", but if they hold out beyond X time (or something like that) they win the scenario.

Exactly Trukk, the problem with BOA, is both sides are trying to win the same Strategic victory conditions, but one side is limited to a tactical Air Force.

[TheBug]

A '44-45 western front Campaign Series, that still offered a base capture but placed a value on Axis strats solely might be the way to go. The strat hardness could be increased greatly to limit it so that the only effective way to attack it would be with the heavies.  The Allies would get points or increase Axis downtimes by hitting the strats, Axis would get the same for defending them.  Would most likely have to do some calculating on the max damage a squadron sized Heavy raid could do to generate a victory point level.

I am also thinking that maybe a perk still system to limit the planeset might be they way to go with this one.  It would be great to include planes like the 262 and 163 but if limited to a base the Allies could still see a unrealistic amount upping if they attack in the base's area.  By incorporating some type of a perk system, the occasional rocket fighter upping to intercept will add excitement to both sides.

Just kinda thinking out loud, there has to be a way to make a historical arena that still is "fun".  Need to keep thinking and  be prepared( and OPEN) to makechanges mid-setup to tweak these new ideas coming on.  Also should be prepared to pull the plug on something that is evidently not working.  The health of the arena now that it has finally got a pulse again, should be a concern for all of us not just the staff.

[a4944]

That being the case, maybe the victory conditions should be different for each team.  Sort of like a scenario where you know one side is going to "lose", but if they hold out beyond X time (or something like that) they win the scenario.

Or, de-emphasize the war and have fun playing a combat simulator.  It's never fair.  The SEA can be fair because they can create a single balanced scenerio.  AvA is 24 hours.  Number vary through the day.  It's never going to be fair.  Look at MA, it's not fair either but people don't care because they are primarily playing a combat simulator and the map reset is secondary.  This may be disturbing to some, but since we are a 24 hour arena we are closer to MA then SEA.  I very much enjoy the match-ups of Axis vs Allied aircraft and would like to have it more available so I don't think that it's a bad thing to be closer to MA.  The alternative to make it fair, would be to limit the hours the arena is open and limit the numbers that can play for a side to balance it during those hours.

Venom

[Shifty]

Or, de-emphasize the war and have fun playing a combat simulator.

Looks better everytime I read it.

[OldBull]

Bug has some good ideas.
MAj OldBull
XO Avengers

[Stampf]

Yes he does.

[Trukk]

Look at MA, it's not fair either but people don't care because they are primarily playing a combat simulator and the map reset is secondary.

To me the MAs are more like aircraft simulators as the style of gameplay they encourage isn't anything like air combat in WWII.  That's what I hope the AvA can bring to the table (and has been for us the last few weeks), encourage more realistic WWII air combat.