Next weapons purchase

[nirvana]

There's nothing wrong with getting a machine gun, or sniper rifle.  Just know that the use of those terms can give many of the pansy folk like Rich the heeby jeebies.

My buddy and I were discussing that today while launching some rounds down range.  Change "sniper rifle" to "high power rifle" and "machine gun" to "rapid fire lead delivery weapon" and it completely changes the whole idea of it.

I've checked out CMP, was just a little fuzzy on which grade becomes unsafe to shoot.  I'm going to talk to the people at the exchange tomorrow and see about procuring one of the aforementioned weapons through them.  Figure I should have fun while I'm single and have the money to.

Anyone had problems with Wolf ammunition before?

[FrodeMk3]

My buddy and I were discussing that today while launching some rounds down range.  Change "sniper rifle" to "high power rifle" and "machine gun" to "rapid fire lead delivery weapon" and it completely changes the whole idea of it.

I've checked out CMP, was just a little fuzzy on which grade becomes unsafe to shoot.  I'm going to talk to the people at the exchange tomorrow and see about procuring one of the aforementioned weapons through them.  Figure I should have fun while I'm single and have the money to.

Anyone had problems with Wolf ammunition before?

...Some of the Civilian Marksmanship Program Garands' look good, but I've heard that they have quite a few built up from spare parts-Kinda like some lots' that came through Big 5 some time ago. If you get one, take a good look at it, or a gunsmith that knows' his Garands.

     And as for a "Machine gun", or a firearm that's capable of Fully-Automatic fire, It's not something as simple as just the tax;

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The NFA defines a number of categories of weapons which are regulated therein. Collectively, these are known as "Title II" weapons and include the following:

Machine guns - this includes any firearm which can fire more than 1 cartridge per trigger pull. Both continuous fully-automatic fire and "burst fire" (ie, weapons with a 3-round burst feature) are considered machine gun features.
Short-Barreled Rifles (SBRs) - this category includes any weapon with a buttstock and either a rifled barrel under 16" long or an overall length under 26". The overall length is measured with any folding or collapsing stocks in the extended position. The category also includes weapons which came from the factory with a buttstock that was later removed by a third party.
Short-Barreled Shotguns (SBSs) - this category is defined similarly to SBRs, but the length limit for the barrel is 18" instead of 16", and the barrel must be a smoothbore. The overall length limit remains 26".
Silencers - this includes any portable device designed to muffle or disguise the report of a portable firearm. It does NOT include non-portable devices, such as sound traps used by gunsmiths in their shops which are large and usually bolted to the floor.
Destructive Devices (DDs) - there are two broad classes of destructive devices. The first contains devices such as grenades, bombs, poison gas weapons, etc. The second contains any non-sporting firearm with a bore over 0.50" (many firearms with bores over 0.50", such as 12-gauge shotguns, are exempted from the law because they have been determined to have a legitimate sporting use).
Any Other Weapons (AOWs) - this is a broad "catch-all" category used to regulate any number of weapons which the ATF deems deserving of registration and taxation. Examples include smooth-bore pistols, pen guns and cane guns, short-barreled weapons with both rifled and smooth bores, etc.
“Any Other Weapons” (AOWs) also include disguised firearms, firearms that can be fired from within a wallet holster, or a briefcase. A short-barreled shotgun which came from the factory with a pistol grip is categorized as an AOW rather than a SBS, because the Gun Control Act describes a shotgun as “…designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder…” The AOW classification also includes handguns with a forward vertical grip. It is therefore illegal to place an aftermarket foregrip on any pistol without first registering it as an AOW and paying the making tax.

In general, even the components that make up an NFA item are considered regulated. For example, each baffle inside a silencer, if removed from the tube, is considered a silencer in and of itself. Thus, individuals cannot own any part of a silencer without registering it with the BATFE and paying NFA taxes. Likewise, owning the parts needed to assemble other NFA weapons is generally prohibited. A person cannot own machine gun trigger components unless he owns a registered machine gun. Owning both a short barrel and a legal-length rifle could be construed as intent to build an illegal unregistered SBR. This is referred to as 'Constructive Possession'.citation needed

Muzzle-loading weapons are exempt from the National Firearms Act. Thus, though common muzzle-loading hunting rifles are available in calibers over 0.50", they are not regulated as destructive devices. Muzzle-loading cannons are similarly exempt since the law draws no distinction between the size of the muzzle-loading weapons; thus it is legal for a civilian to build muzzle-loading cannons and mortars with no paperwork. Individuals or companies seeking to market large-bore weapons may apply to the ATF for a "Sporting Clause Exception." If granted, the ATF acknowledges that the weapon has a legitimate sporting use and is therefore not a destructive device. Many large safari rifle calibers, such as .585 Nyati and .577 Tyrannosaur, have such exceptions.


[edit] The registration process, purchases, taxes and transfers
It is a common misconception that an individual must have a "Class 3 License" in order to own NFA weapons. This is not the case. One must only have a Class 3 license (more properly known as an 03 SOT) to buy and sell NFA weapons as a business. Individual owners do not need any license under the NFA to buy Title II weapons. However, the purchase and sale of NFA weapons is heavily taxed and regulated, as follows.

All NFA items must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). Private owners wishing to purchase an NFA item must obtain permission from the ATF, obtain a signature from the county sheriff or city or town chief of police (not necessarily permission), pass an extensive background check to include submitting a photograph and finger prints, fully register the firearm, receive ATF written permission before moving the firearm across state lines, and pay a tax. The request to transfer ownership of an NFA item is made on an ATF Form 4.[2]

NFA items may also be transferred to corporations (or other legal entities such as a trust). When the paperwork to request transfer of an NFA item is initiated by an officer of a corporation, a signature from local law enforcement is not required, and fingerprint cards and photographs do not need to be submitted with the transfer request. Therefore, an individual who lives in a location where the chief law enforcement officer will not sign a transfer form can still own an NFA item if he/she owns a corporation. This method has downsides, though, since it is the corporation (and not the principal) that owns the weapon. Thus, if the corporation ever dissolves, it must liquidate its NFA weapons, and transferring them to the owners would be considered a new transfer and subject to a new transfer tax.

 
US National Firearms Act Stamp, affixed to transfer forms to indicate tax paid.The tax for privately manufacturing any NFA firearm (other than machineguns, which are generally illegal to manufacture) is $200. Transferring requires a $200 tax for all NFA firearms except AOWs, for which the transfer tax is $5 (although the manufacturing tax remains $200). Dealers who pay a special yearly occupational tax are exempt from these taxes for transfers to or from other special occupational taxpayers (SOTs). The registration or transfer process takes approximately 1-3 months to complete. Additionally, the firearm can never be handled or transported by any other private individual unless the firearm's registered owner is present. Corporations which own NFA weapons can loan them to any employee of the corporation with a letter of permission on the corporate letterhead. NFA items owned by trusts may be legally possessed by any trustee (ie, if a husband and wife are both trustees, either of them may use and transport the weapon without the other present).

Upon the demand of any ATF agent, the registered owner must produce the original ATF Form with tax stamp affixed to prove the weapon is legally owned. Technically speaking, owners are not required to produce the form for any non-ATF personnel (ie, local police officers do not have the legal right to demand to see the form). However, in practice, most NFA weapon owners keep a photocopy of their paperwork with the weapon at all times and will show it to any authority that requests it, simply to avoid harassment or detainment, or the seizure of the weapon. Most owners keep the original form in a safe place, such as a safe deposit box, to avoid damaging it as the ATF will not replace a $200 tax stamp that is damaged. Prudent owners try to keep the original form out of harm's way.

There are a number of situations in which an NFA item may be transferred without a transfer tax. These include sales to government agencies, temporary transfers of an NFA weapon to a gunsmith for repairs, and transfer of an NFA weapon to a lawful heir after the death of its owner. Any permanent transfer, even if tax-free, must be approved by the ATF by submitting the proper form before the transfer can occur. For example, lawful heirs must submit a Form 5 and wait for its approval before taking possession of any NFA item willed to them. Temporary transfers, such as those to a gunsmith or to the original manufacturer for repair, are not subject to ATF approval since they are not legally considered transfers. However, the ATF still recommends filing tax-free transfer paperwork on all such temporary transfers, to confer an extra layer of legal protection on both the owner and the gunsmith.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

[Jappa52]

There's a guy in Prescott, Az that has a bunch of Garands for about 200 bucks. I'll ask my buddy in Phoenix if he still has this guys info. My buddy bought 2.

I would be interested in hearing more about this guy.

[lasersailor184]

My buddy and I were discussing that today while launching some rounds down range.  Change "sniper rifle" to "high power rifle" and "machine gun" to "rapid fire lead delivery weapon" and it completely changes the whole idea of it.

I've checked out CMP, was just a little fuzzy on which grade becomes unsafe to shoot.  I'm going to talk to the people at the exchange tomorrow and see about procuring one of the aforementioned weapons through them.  Figure I should have fun while I'm single and have the money to.

Anyone had problems with Wolf ammunition before?

I've put wolf ammo through my Nagant with no problems.  However, they didn't feed so well through my cheapo 1911 clone.


From what I've heard, it's either hit or miss.

[Hornet33]

Stay away from Wolf ammo. I've hardly ever heard of anyone who had good experiance with it.

As far as what type of weapon you should be looking at, well your in Alaska. Are you going to hunt or do you just want something to bang around with on your off duty hours? If your going to hunt I would suggest a .308 or 7mm bolt action rifle, maybe a 30-06. Remington, Winchester, Ruger, and Savage make some of the best high powered bolt action rifles on the market right now. I'd also suggest a reliable sidearm if your going into the back country. A double action .44 magnum revolver seems to be a very popular sidearm up in that part of the world for good reason. It will take down a bear if need be at close range, and a revolver isn't as prone to failures in extreme cold weather like an automatic pistol. A .357 would be the smallest round for a sidearm I'd carry up there. A .45, .40, or 9mm just doesn't have the penetration needed if you come face to face with a bear and you NEED a gun.

Lot's of options for firearms but take into account your enviroment that you will be operating in and let that be the deciding factor as to what you purchase. The cool guy factor is nice on the gun range, but out in the brush it probably wont do you a damn bit of good when you really need to put steel on target to keep yourself or your buddies alive.

[BBBB]

It's not a class 3 license, but a class 3 tax.  50 or 60 bucks per Machinegun.  If you're clean enough for the Air Force Academy (IIRC), you're probably clean enough to pass the background check.  Unfortunately, the supply of MG's is so controlled that their prices range from 5 grand to 20 grand, even for the most commonly produced machine guns of the world.

 Speaking of being full of something...

 Man I wish it was really that easy. Fifty to sixty dollars for a class III license?  If you have the time and the money you can pick up a good quality Uzi for around six thousand or so. That is a good starting point.

 I say go the Garand route. I bought a re-conditioned one from http://www.miltecharms.com/ It set me back a little more than most Garands you can find, but mine is like having a brand new original. I have put well over 1,000 rounds though it with no problem. I am currently waiting on an M1 carbine from them. Their work is top notch and the Garand is not only a fun to shoot rifle, but a capable battle rifle still today. If SHTF, I would most likely grab my Garand out of the safe. Next to my AKs and SKS's, it is one of the most trouble free weapons I own.

[BBBB]

Stay away from Wolf ammo. I've hardly ever heard of anyone who had good experiance with it.

 Than brace yourself..There is nothing wrong with Wolf ammo. Ever wonder why you never see pictures of the weapons blowing up from Wolf ammo? Or why you never hear first hand accounts of the problems with Wolf ammo, but instead you always hear it on an internet board or a guy who heard it from another guy, who's uncle's cousins, nephew had Wolf brand blow up his M1A1 SOCOM.

 For a long time I believed the hearsay about how Wolf was bad, it will mess up your AR-15, Glock, H&K, M1A1, Jeep ..ect. I now know all that buzz to be bunk. I have put thousands of Wolf brand ammo though my AR-15 and I have put ten's of thousands of round of Wolf brand ammo though various pistols I own and more rounds of Wolf ammo than I care to keep track of though my SKS and AK's. I have had no problems with the ammo, other than some bad primers. In the AK's and SKS's, I have had a handful of broken shells, but that is why they make broken shell extractors.

 I would not recommend Wolf ammo for defense, but it is fantastic ammo for what it is, cheap target ammo. It is a little dirty, but to be honest, I don't notice much of a difference between Wolf and Win White box when it comes to how dirty the ammo is.

 Check the stuff out. Take the plunge you will be glad you did.

[lasersailor184]

Ah, yes.  I should have mentioned that my cheapo temperamental 1911 won't feed 1/3 of the bullets out there.  Wolf is just one of the brands.

[Hornet33]

Oh I've shot Wolf ammo and I wasn't impressed. Used it in my 9mm and AR-15. It wasn't accurate in either weapon, had several fail to fires because of bad primers, the .223 ammo really fouled the chamber on my AR-15 because of the laquer coating on the steel cases burning off in the chamber when it got hot. That caused a lot of failure to feed properly, requiring a breakdown and cleaning of the rifle after maybe 150 rounds fired. I've had the same issure with other brands of ammo that use a painted, laquered, steel case as well in my AR-15.

My personal experiance as well as most other people I've talked to that have shot the stuff just hasn't been real good. I'm happy that the ammo works for you, but I'll never use it again myself in my weapons.

[BBBB]

That lacquered coating issue is a thing of the past. They have a new coating on their ammo that works fine. I tend to think a lot of the problems people have with some ammo has to do with the quality of firearm more so than they quality of ammo. If you bought a Stag AR-15 or other parts AR-15s, then most of your problems are the gun and not the ammo. My Colt, Bushmaster and S&W AR-15s feed Wolf brand ammo without any issues.

[Hornet33]

I've got a 2 year old Bushmaster AR-15/M4. It just doesn't like any steel cased ammo. I normally shoot American Arms .223 or Remington .223 and it'll eat that ammo up all day long with no problems. It doesn't cost much more than the Wolf ammo so that's what I buy when I order ammo. I also order online and buy in bulk too so it saves me some money.

Whatever, to each their own I guess. Weapons are just like people in some regards. They like what they like.

[ODBAL]

http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q461/kevlq/Gun.jpg

I went with the AR-15, funnest gun I have ever owned and comfortable to shoot.  It was a Rock River Arms with an EOtech aimpoint on it.  My buddy who I shoot with has a couple variants on the AK-47 (including full auto) and I much preferred my AR-15 to go out and shoot for fun.  And, I shot loads of WOLF ammo and never had a single problem with it.  Stay away for the laquered casings and you will be just fine.  Another plus in my opinion is that the AR-15's (M4 look-alikes anyway) are about the sexiest looking guns made.

[Charon]

I've checked out CMP, was just a little fuzzy on which grade becomes unsafe to shoot.  I'm going to talk to the people at the exchange tomorrow and see about procuring one of the aforementioned weapons through them.  Figure I should have fun while I'm single and have the money to.

All grades (Collector, Correct, Service, Field and Rack) are safe to shoot. The grading refers to the overall condition. A collector will be in the best cosmetic condition and have little barrel wear, a correct grade should be "original" but perhaps service grade in overall condition, a service grade its perhaps the sweetest spot, a field grade pretty close and a rack grade is still service quality (here troop, go out an kill some commies) but will likely be rougher and have less barrel life (still several thousands of rounds). They occasionally sell far more worn weapons collected from VFW posts at "wall hanger quality" (like the recent M1917s) but that is cleary indicated.

...Some of the Civilian Marksmanship Program Garands' look good, but I've heard that they have quite a few built up from spare parts-Kinda like some lots' that came through Big 5 some time ago. If you get one, take a good look at it, or a gunsmith that knows' his Garands.

Most are not, and if they are (like some of the last Inland carbines) that is clearly indicated. These weapons are inspected, tweaked and repaired as necessiary, checked for headspace and function and graded, usually conservatively. There are very few reported problems with CMP weapons, and they sell thousands of them each year. Doesn't mean a lemon can't slip through ehre and ther, but that is by far the exception rather than the rule and certainly no different than any used gun purchase.

You didn't happen to hear that from a gun dealer, did you

Hiya HANGTIME!

Charon

[lasersailor184]

All grades (Collector, Service, Field and Rack) are safe to shoot. The grading refers to the overall condition. A collector will be in the best cosmetic condition and should be "original" and have the mpost barrel life left. A rack grade is still service quality (here troop, go out an kill some commies) but will likely be rougher and have less barrel life (still several thousands of rounds).

Most are not, and if they are (like some of the last Inland carbines) that is clearly indicated. These weapons are inspected, tweaked and repaired as necessiary, checked for headspace and function and graded, usually conservatively. There are very few reported problems with CMP weapons, and they sell thousands of them each year. You didn't happen to hear that from a gun dealer, did you

Hiya HANGTIME!

Charon

The built up from spare parts is probably just a confusion about what actually happened.  A lot of the CMP guns are not all matching original parts guns.  Most of the time, the host country stored them, then rebuilt / refurbished them.  I have 2 danish lend lease guns which were refurbed in 1958.  Only the barrels were replaced.

[Charon]

The built up from spare parts is probably just a confusion about what actually happened.  A lot of the CMP guns are not all matching original parts guns.  Most of the time, the host country stored them, then rebuilt / refurbished them.  I have 2 danish lend lease guns which were refurbed in 1958.  Only the barrels were replaced.

True, except specifically for the "correct" grade these are rearsenaled "non matching."

However, that was common for most US weapons since we didn't have to match parts like most of the europen firearms and you could easily mix and match without any concerns during a rebuild. A lot of people have put a lot of time into remanufacturing "matching" grands by swapping parts, which IMO is a waste of time YMMV. I frankly wouldn't trust a matching garand or carbine without CMP papers. The best to hope for is a service grade with an original barrel to the receiver, which does happen here or there -- particularly a WW2 era serial.

They did build up some carbines from service grade barrelled receivers and new boyd stocks and produced some of the more aesthetically appealing carbines of the recent bunch. A niche product for those that want them.

Charon