Author Topic: 38 buttocks falling awaaaaay....? Pryo? HT? (Read 582 times)

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #15 on:** July 10, 2001, 11:55:00 AM »

Well, I hit you with over 10 20mm shells from the C.205 last night xBat. You just lost your engine I believe then stalled into the ground.

Audio cues aren't really indicating what the other guy is hitting you with.
-SW

batdog · « **Reply #16 on:** July 10, 2001, 12:51:00 PM »

Well... I dont think you hit me with 10 20mm's...if so I hope i'd lose more than an engine

. I do rem alot of pings which made me think you where out of 20's...I was very wrong it seemed..lol

. I am not debating this at all. I am not trying to do anything beyond asking that the damage model simply be reviewed. The hardcore 38 group has brought this subject up before...I am simply stiring the pot abit and stoking the fire.

xBAT

P.S. I dont suppose you where firing both MG's and cannon and only hitting with one? Or perhaps I/or you where lagging? I really do remember that low fight, which was alot of fun and those MG sounding pings...

[ 07-10-2001: Message edited by: batdog ]

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #17 on:** July 10, 2001, 12:55:00 PM »

Somewhere between 7 and 10 20mms, since I only fire cannons in a cannon armed plane I'm certain that's all I hit you with in the head on.

I realise what you are asking for, I'm just trying to indicate that the audio representation of you being shot up usually does not coincide with the same amount of hits you received from the other guy.
That's all.

-SW

batdog · « **Reply #18 on:** July 10, 2001, 01:00:00 PM »

Well... your post answered my edit/question...lol. Yea... thats a real possiablity being this is the net. I rem something about AW3 having a "packet" priorty so to speak where "pings" where often discarded for more "important" info?

xBAT

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #19 on:** July 10, 2001, 01:03:00 PM »

Well you could of heard the MG sound pings too, because I will fire those if I don't have a definite aim on you.. that way I don't waste my cannon rounds.

A while back all audio sounds were played after you got nailed, but sometimes you'd be sitting the tower still hearing hits coming in 5 seconds after you died. So I believe they discarded that and chose to play the hit sounds up until you die.
-SW

Nifty · « **Reply #20 on:** July 10, 2001, 03:08:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SWulfe:
Well you could of heard the MG sound pings too, because I will fire those if I don't have a definite aim on you.. that way I don't waste my cannon rounds.

A while back all audio sounds were played after you got nailed, but sometimes you'd be sitting the tower still hearing hits coming in 5 seconds after you died. So I believe they discarded that and chose to play the hit sounds up until you die.
-SW

Not always discarded, sometimes I get hit sounds all the way to the tower after dying...

Tuomio · « **Reply #21 on:** July 10, 2001, 04:02:00 PM »

What other damage could possibly happen with this present AH system?
Isnt there only 1 elevator on p38? Normally, hits for my tail remove either one of my elevators, which indicates, that the elevator is badly damaged and out of control.

Now this is exactly what happens with p38, you lose your elevator. But, you have only one of those, thanks to US engineers! I havent found out, that p38:s elevator was more fragile than any others elevator. I sometimes ping their tail with few cannon rounds, till it falls, MG:s aint doing much to it.

So, wheres the problem? That 1 ping and crack is BS, we can test that in h2h anytime.
Radiators seem to be fragile, but we have 190:s engines going instantly off from few 50cal rounds, so youre not alone with these problems.

batdog · « **Reply #22 on:** July 10, 2001, 06:00:00 PM »

Well... thanks for that statement. Your expertise is much appreciated.

Food for thought... if they look at perhaps SOME of what I mentioned perhaps the effects could roll over to YOUR favorite plane set..ehhh? I am not claiming to be an expert..as I stated. I am simply stating a percieved problem that many others seem to agree with.

As far as YOUR percieved hits..maybe they are NOT hitting... perhaps there is some net lag w/you OR the target at times. We really have no idea as we cant SEE the data. We can only state what we percieve... thats all.

Edit: Oh and if I LOSE my ele does this mean I lose my flight ablity? Does my plane fall backwards? No...I think Not. Lose your ele in anthor plane.. you can fly. The ENTIRE tail section leaves the plane... always when hit.

xBAT

[ 07-10-2001: Message edited by: batdog ]

Yeager · « **Reply #23 on:** July 10, 2001, 06:27:00 PM »

First off I dont fly the 38. I admire folks that can and do well in it (both of em).

Secondly, one thing always strikes me about the 38s I kill: I always see that damned hor stab fall off as the plane spirals in.

Y

Tac · « **Reply #24 on:** July 10, 2001, 07:18:00 PM »

do yourself a simple test. Grab a .303 armed spit or a c202, get to within d400 of a buddy's 38 in H2H (both players with cable or better to ensure a minimal lag issue) and fire a short burst of 303 from left to right (a horizontal "spray" pattern).

7 out of 10 times in average the bullets will snap the tail off almost instantly with 1 or 2 pings on it, in many other cases 1 engine will quit or you will rip off a wing/wingtip. Very, very seldomly will you just get an aleiron damage/flap damage/elevator damage/engine damage (fuel leak, oil leak).

DmdNexus · « **Reply #25 on:** July 10, 2001, 08:51:00 PM »

Tac,
good test plan!

How about you and BatDog go to Training or H2H.

Do about 50 sorties and get us some numbers.

Let's put some test data on this for Pyro and HiTech.

This is the fastest way to get the 38s fixed - if they need fixen.

Nexus

batdog · « **Reply #26 on:** July 10, 2001, 09:48:00 PM »

Sounds good.

xBAT

Karnak · « **Reply #27 on:** July 11, 2001, 10:29:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bodhi:
Hey Citabria,
I am rebuilding a 38 now, and I hate to tell you this, but a 20mm in the base of the tail booms will wreak a lot of havoc with the structure, to the point of failure IMHO. The Horizontal may take some damage, but the problem is the distortion caused by the impact will probably inhibit the control surface movement. Just an FYI for yas.

This from a guy who is rebuilding a real P-38.

I do think that it is a bit too easy to hit the narrow booms though.

Something else, AH has way, WAY to many aircraft losses to gross structural failure. Look a gun camera footage, in most cases the aircraft is destroyed via fire or unidentified damage that causes a loss of flight control. Sometimes there is massive structural failure. In AH it is almost always massive structural failure.

Major bits on ALL aircraft in AH come off to easily. It only takes 12 .50 bullets to remove a Lancaster's wing. The Lanc was known as a tough bird, much like the B-17. According to at least one German ace it took 6-7 30mm hits to rmove a B-17's wing. It seems that the structural strength of some, maybe all, aircraft are undermodeled. I don't think that a .50 cal bullet does half the damage of a 30mm shell.

At the same time fire and engine damage (unless it kills the engine outright) do not have any immediate effect.

Control cables are never severed (leaving you with a control surface that is doing what the wind tells it to do) or control surfaces that get jammed (possibly at a high deflection) and reduce or eliminate flight control of the aircraft.

I would love to see a more detailed damage system in AH.

[ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]

DmdNexus · « **Reply #28 on:** July 11, 2001, 11:02:00 AM »

Karnak - you Hijacker!

I agree with all your points, but start your own thread about damage model.

Nexus

Tac · « **Reply #29 on:** July 11, 2001, 06:03:00 PM »

I agree that a single 20mm hit or a couple of .50's on the tail boom would rip it off, but imo, in AH this happening at such extreme angle shots/long range I find it hard to believe people are so LUCKY to hit something that is extremely narrow and vital rather than hitting something big (like the wingspan or main structure)...so continously. Heck, ive seen a zeke eat more lead on a d100 straight 6 and level against 20mm than a 38 at d900 vs .303's!