Author Topic: South Osetia under attack  (Read 116771 times)

Offline Elfie

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #210 on: August 10, 2008, 02:44:43 PM »
It has been answered already in the thread. No need to repeat again.

Then please point it out, because I sure don't see it as being answered.
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Offline Suave

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #211 on: August 10, 2008, 02:52:26 PM »
Forgive my ignorance, but how are you getting long range contacts on 80m? I thought 80m was "near vertical incedence".

Good on Russia. If Russia continues in it's role as peace keeper inasmuch as securing S. Ossetia and does not press to conquer Georgia, Russia will come out of this gleaming. And rightfully so. But much remains to be seen, I'm guardedly optomistic.

Have to wonder what the georgian leaders were thinking. I mean, even if they were responding to some sepratist artillery, the response was totally disproportionate. The manner in which they nearly raized that city makes me reconsider what first seemed hyperbolic; the russian's accusation of ethnic cleansing intentions. Again I come back to, what they hell were they thinking? What did they think they were going to accomplish? How did they expect to reassimilate S. Ossetia when 90% of the population violently want's a reunified Ossetia, seperate of Georgia. Georgia leaders know that they can't stand against Russia, that's why they've allready withdrawn and redeployed in a defense posture. Had they pre-planned to do this? Did they really expect a western alliance to go to war on their behalf? I just can't figure a motive at this point. Any thoughts?

Offline FrodeMk3

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #212 on: August 10, 2008, 04:19:11 PM »
This is one of the latest stories on Yahoo news:

Quote
By MISHA DZHINDZHIKHASHVILI, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 25 minutes ago
 


TBILISI, Georgia - Russia expanded its bombing blitz to the Georgian capital, deployed ships off the coast and, a Georgian official said, sent tanks from the separatist region of South Ossetia into Georgian territory, heading toward a border city before being turned back Sunday.

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Russia also claimed its forces sank a Georgian missile boat that was trying to attack Russian ships in the Black Sea, news agencies reported.

U.S.-allied Georgia called a unilateral cease-fire — "We are not crazy," said President Mikhail Saakashvili — and claimed its troops were retreating Sunday from the disputed province of South Ossetia in the face of Russia's far superior firepower. Russia said the soldiers were "not withdrawing but regrouping" and refused to recognize a truce.

The Russian Defense Ministry refused to comment to The Associated Press on the reports of the sinking and Georgian officials could not immediately be reached. If confirmed, it could mark a serious escalation of the fighting that has raged between Russia and Georgia over South Ossetia.

If this is true...The russians' need to quit pushing now. The reason I say this, is if they initiate an invasion of Georgia, it's gonna force Bush into a corner; They've declared they're intent to join NATO, and they have contributed to our situation in Iraq. If we let them dangle on this, what's that say about the U.S.? And, I think that GWB's gotta be thinking this. I just don't know what plans' that the Joint Chiefs' have to respond. Maybe none, indicated by the way Bush's talking. If he's going to have to use our military, he's gonna have to act quick. Diplomacy doesn't have much time in this situation.

Offline Maniac

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #213 on: August 10, 2008, 04:38:15 PM »
Word in news over here says that Russia will try to force a regime change in Georgia before they stop. They want a more Russia friendly regime.
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Offline Hangtime

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #214 on: August 10, 2008, 04:44:10 PM »
Forgive my ignorance, but how are you getting long range contacts on 80m? I thought 80m was "near vertical incedence".


Nope... NVIS is an antenna system that favors skywave propagation instead of groundwave. Groundwave is long haul, NVIS short haul. With a kilowatt or two, I can get into russia and europe without much difficulty when the band goes long late at night here; with the groundwave antenna system I'm running I can hear stations working at as low as 100 watts half the world away when the weather isn't causing too much static.


Good on Russia. If Russia continues in it's role as peace keeper inasmuch as securing S. Ossetia and does not press to conquer Georgia, Russia will come out of this gleaming. And rightfully so. But much remains to be seen, I'm guardedly optomistic.

Have to wonder what the georgian leaders were thinking. I mean, even if they were responding to some sepratist artillery, the response was totally disproportionate. The manner in which they nearly raized that city makes me reconsider what first seemed hyperbolic; the russian's accusation of ethnic cleansing intentions. Again I come back to, what they hell were they thinking? What did they think they were going to accomplish? How did they expect to reassimilate S. Ossetia when 90% of the population violently want's a reunified Ossetia, seperate of Georgia. Georgia leaders know that they can't stand against Russia, that's why they've allready withdrawn and redeployed in a defense posture. Had they pre-planned to do this? Did they really expect a western alliance to go to war on their behalf? I just can't figure a motive at this point. Any thoughts?


I strongly disagree on the appropriateness of Russia's involvement in the Georgian dispute over who controls their own territory. It's Georgian territory, and it's a Georgian civil war. Would we tolerate Russian military support for latino rebels in a southwestern US separatist movement? How would we react to the flow of military hardware into rebel hands coming from russia or mexico??

The military buildup of the Ossetian separatists is a Russian construct... and Georgia, rightly; considered it a challenge to sovereignty over their own territory. The separatists would not be a serious sovereignty threat without Russian support; military, political and economic. The Georgians were well within their rights to attempt to put an end to it.

So, here we go; another cold war style proxy war... only Europe is the scene; not some south-east asian rice paddy or an african backwater. And the stakes this time are VERY high...

This has got to be putting big pressure on Ukraine and the other former eastern block non-nato countries... how Gerogia goes will be likely how they go.... forcefully re-introduced to Russian control? Or do they fight for the rights of sovereign democracies by all out support for Georgia; IN Georgia, rather than on their own frontiers? How NATO reacts and how Free Europe reacts is crucial... do we let Russia whip up on Georgia and possibly lose all influence in the region? Or will we fulfill the promise we made, and halt the invader by whatever means necessary?

After listening carefully to the Russian Propaganda (shortwave links below) and the majority of the Euro based respondents here; it would seem that the Russians will succeed... certainly; their propaganda machine is winning.

http://mt-shortwave.blogspot.com/2008/08/hot-spot-dxing-georgia-russia-conflict.html

So... the current 64 dollar question: Will Russia get away with inciting insurrection and invasion in a neighboring country?
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #215 on: August 10, 2008, 05:01:10 PM »
Now I'm confused! I thought it was the Russians that completely destroyed Grozny killing thousands, carpet-bombing and using rocket artillery against apartment blocks?

(Image removed from quote.)


Looks like they're using the same tactics in Georgia.


A burning apartment building, hit by a Russian airstrike, in the northern Georgian town of Gori.


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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #216 on: August 10, 2008, 05:38:08 PM »
Cowards who can only mass-kill unarmed civilians.

I wonder how many medals the Soviets gave out to the proud warriors of the Rodina for poisoning civilian water wells in Afghanistan or making aerial dropped mines to look like children's toys.


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Offline Choocha

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #217 on: August 10, 2008, 05:55:13 PM »
<< BREAKING NEWS >>


I just called my friend in Atlanta and he said NO RUSSIAN TROOPS THERE!


This whole thing is made up!!!

Offline mg1942

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #218 on: August 10, 2008, 06:05:46 PM »
 :rofl :aok

Offline Holden McGroin

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #219 on: August 10, 2008, 06:18:46 PM »
<< BREAKING NEWS >>


I just called my friend in Atlanta and he said NO RUSSIAN TROOPS THERE!


This whole thing is made up!!!

The Russians heard that Sherman already burned it, so no reason to go there.

I wonder if Boroda supports Mexican Troops border incursions to ensure the safety of Mexican nationals living here.
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Offline sprattjack

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #220 on: August 10, 2008, 06:48:44 PM »
Right now Georgian forces are bombing Tshinvali using BM-21 Grad. They officially announced hostilities against South Osetia. Russian peacekeeping forces are still not involved, but we'll see.

This is insane. I see a full-scale world crisis beginning.
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Offline Maniac

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #221 on: August 10, 2008, 06:49:01 PM »
Imho Bush (and the US) could save alot of face by backing Georgia in this time of crisis, be it with troops or military hardware. I mean, Georgia, an Ally of the USA that are fighting in Iraq alongside US and coalition forces, Georgia wich Bush frantically lobbyed to get into Nato.

If he sit backs and just watches this one, then i dunno really.

If you compare this to the middle east conflict, then its quite clear that this should warrant a military responce. But i doubt he wants to wage war against a real enemy. Having fought only ragheads from the mediaval times for so long, i dont think the US military grunts would cope with this conflict, they have gotten too used to the middle east style of "warfare" and the grunts would be up for a big shock in a war wheres theres a real enemy.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2008, 07:04:51 PM by Maniac »
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Offline E25280

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #222 on: August 10, 2008, 06:51:45 PM »
The facts.....are under dispute as to who started what. Both sides claim the other side started it. Russia has been suspected of trying to instigate things for some time now. As far as the South Ossetians not wanting to be part of Georgia? Who cares? Let them move to Russia if they want to be Russian citizens. No one is helping the Turkish Kurds to be independent or any other minority group in many other countries to be independent. This is nothing more than a power play by Putin and the Russians.
Apparently you have not heard about the Albanians and Kosovo?

Face it, folks.  However unsavory some of us feel Russia's actions may be, they DO have a precedent they are following -- our own.

NATO and the US bombed and isolated Serbia, a traditional friend of Russia, in the name of some break-away rebels.  Now Russia supports some break-away rebels in a NATO wannabe country.  The symmetry is too perfect.

Doesn't make it right, but certainly makes it understandable.
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Offline Hangtime

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #223 on: August 10, 2008, 06:58:38 PM »
Horsepucky.

More russian propaganda..   

No Georgians are shoveling dirt on mass graves. Georgians have not been practicing ethnic cleansing.

The horrific circumstances that lead us into the Serbian situation on the moslem side differ HUGELY with what's happening in Georgia.

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...at home, or abroad.

Offline sprattjack

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #224 on: August 10, 2008, 07:00:55 PM »
Horsepucky.

More russian propaganda..   

No Georgians are shoveling dirt on mass graves. Georgians have not been practicing ethnic cleansing.

The horrific circumstances that lead us into the Serbian situation on the moslem side differ HUGELY with what's happening in Georgia.


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