South Osetia under attack

[FrodeMk3]

I know Fox News isn't so far removed from American propaganda, but, I did watch a video report from one of their reporters driving in a vehicle out of Gori, passing at least a dozen or so BMP-21's with their associated dismounts, heading into the city.  I'm not quite as current on my Russian TO as I used to be, but it looked like a mechanized company strength unit, and they were oscar mike into the city.

The Russian "demilitarization" of the areas south of S.O. is the worrisome part.  That's a pretty open-ended mission by any definition.  I'm not partial to stirring up a hornets nest, but I think we need to draw a hard line here.  Too much at stake to allow the Russians to run wherever they want without due regard to their former territories sovereignty.  Shame we allowed them the freedom of action back in the 90's to set up these puppet territories in those two provinces to begin with.  But, we set some fairly duplicative precedent with Kosovo, so this is probably their version of "tit-for-tat".

That's probably true, Stoney, but IMHO they've waited too long. Georgian territory is now Georgian territory; The Russians' weren't asked in by the government of that country to help settle the problems in Ossetia, Abkhazia, or anywhere. Neither did the U.N. This is a more naked and baldfaced aggression on Russia's part.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

IF the goal of Russia is ONLY to free South Osetia from Georgia, then WHY are they in the port city of Georgia destroying Georgia's Coast Guard boats? Other than open aggression and punitive actions by Russia, no other reasons exist. I've looked at the links provided by some here, but I see nothing other than Russia attempting to reassert their dominance of the region by force.

[Stoney]

That's probably true, Stoney, but IMHO they've waited too long. Georgian territory is now Georgian territory; The Russians' weren't asked in by the government of that country to help settle the problems in Ossetia, Abkhazia, or anywhere. Neither did the U.N. This is a more naked and baldfaced aggression on Russia's part.

Somewhat...but there's a whole lot of context in this situation that we don't understand on the surface.  I don't know enough about the racial/ethnic/religious makeup of those two territories to know what the underlying motivation is.  The fact that Russian "peacekeepers" have been in those two territories for 10 years or so, and the fact that the Russians passed out passports to those territories make this a fairly sticky situation, especially since we did nothing back when all this developed originally.  

Does anyone know anything about the navigability of the Black Sea?  For example, what type of freedom of action would USN CVBG's and ESG's have off the coast of Georgia?  Looking at the ranges overland, a strong USN presence could have a decisive impact merely through their presence, if they're not pigeon-holed by the hydrology of the Black Sea.

[Stoney]

IF the goal of Russia is ONLY to free South Osetia from Georgia, then WHY are they in the port city of Georgia destroying Georgia's Coast Guard boats? Other than open aggression and punitive actions by Russia, no other reasons exist. I've looked at the links provided by some here, but I see nothing other than Russia attempting to reassert their dominance of the region by force.

Well, south of Georgia is Turkey, which, when it comes to the Russians, is extremely pro-U.S., and of course, a NATO member.  Obviously we've got some freedom of action there, not to mention access to many airfields and bases in Iraq (ironically) from which to maintain some vigilance.  There's some fairly compressed geography in this region that will allow us to keep what's left of Georgia's sovereignty in tact.  Long-term, I have no idea.  Short term, we have a lot of options.

[Stoney]

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gg.html

If anyone's looking for some good resources to understand the context behind all of this...

[Hangtime]

Well, south of Georgia is Turkey, which, when it comes to the Russians, is extremely pro-U.S., and of course, a NATO member.  Obviously we've got some freedom of action there, not to mention access to many airfields and bases in Iraq (ironically) from which to maintain some vigilance.  There's some fairly compressed geography in this region that will allow us to keep what's left of Georgia's sovereignty in tact.  Long-term, I have no idea.  Short term, we have a lot of options.

Stoney, the Black Sea has a tonnage limit by treaty for 'foreign warships'.. as far as I recall we can legally station a sail rigged 42 gun frigate for 15 days. See Montreux Convention.

[Boroda]

Bush pledges military aircraft and naval forces for humanitarian aid. Interesting.

Nothing new. Humanitarian bombings again.

Should I watch for re-entry trails here in Moscow?....

[Boroda]

Are you sure? Boroda keeps calling them vermin. 

Gruzin = Georgian
Grizun = vermin

Word play in Russian.

People shooting at populated cities should be punished regardless on the side they're on.

Air raid sirens are in my genes, so it goes.

[Boroda]

I know Fox News isn't so far removed from American propaganda, but, I did watch a video report from one of their reporters driving in a vehicle out of Gori, passing at least a dozen or so BMP-21's with their associated dismounts, heading into the city.  I'm not quite as current on my Russian TO as I used to be, but it looked like a mechanized company strength unit, and they were oscar mike into the city.

The Russian "demilitarization" of the areas south of S.O. is the worrisome part.  That's a pretty open-ended mission by any definition.  I'm not partial to stirring up a hornets nest, but I think we need to draw a hard line here.  Too much at stake to allow the Russians to run wherever they want without due regard to their former territories sovereignty.  Shame we allowed them the freedom of action back in the 90's to set up these puppet territories in those two provinces to begin with.  But, we set some fairly duplicative precedent with Kosovo, so this is probably their version of "tit-for-tat".

Are YOU ready to see re-entry trails in the sky?

Don't mess up with Russians. Please.

Next time there will be no "please".

All we want is to be left alone.

[Hangtime]

I'd sure as hell be worried about the reaction of a lame duck US President with a history of crushing responses to what he may consider to be a hostile act against a sovereign nation under his personal protection.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the white house today.

[angelsandair]

I'd sure as hell be worried about the reaction of a lame duck US President with a history of crushing responses to what he may consider to be a hostile act against a sovereign nation under his personal protection.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the white house today.

Atleast he'd be doing something about it unlike lets say... John Kerry would... 

[Elfie]

Are YOU ready to see re-entry trails in the sky?

Don't mess up with Russians. Please.

Next time there will be no "please".

All we want is to be left alone.

All you want is to be left alone? I guess that explains why Russian troops are in Georgia now. 

[Hangtime]

Are YOU ready to see re-entry trails in the sky?

Don't mess up with Russians. Please.

Next time there will be no "please".

All we want is to be left alone.

1. Yup.
2. We didn't.. but we're not gonna let the Georgians fall to russian imperial policy
3. When has Russia said 'please'?
4. Get outta Georgia, we'll be glad to leave yah alone

[Stoney]

Are YOU ready to see re-entry trails in the sky?

Its a shame that you limit your postings to simply flame-baiting and trolling.  Given your unique perspective and rapt attention to posts on these matters, you could probably be a huge educational resource to those of us outside of your nation.

And, just between us, I don't fear the thought of re-entry trails over the U.S. or your nation--neither country is so stupid as to let this go that far, even if we did trade conventional blows.

[soda72]

Georgia beat Russia in volleyball

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympics/volleyball/7558304.stm