USSR reborn?

[FrodeMk3]

If Russia is an aggressor there - then why did about 100,000 refugees flee SO and moved to Russia?... I mean - in early 90s.

Georgia was independent for 21 years in XX century and already started 7 wars...

If you look at this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_invasion_of_Georgia (It's an interesting read, btw) You'll see that this isn't the first time the Russians' have had designs' on Georgia. I'm also thinking that Poti might be a convenient base for the Black Sea fleet when the Ukraine boots' them out here in 2017, when their lease is up. To read about that, take a look here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevastopol#Russian_naval_base_and_ownership_dispute

And one last thing I'd like to point out.

On April 9, 1991, shortly before the collapse of the USSR, Georgia declared independence. On May 26, 1991, Zviad Gamsakhurdia was elected as a first President of independent Georgia. However, he was soon deposed in a bloody coup d'état, from December 22, 1991 to January 6, 1992. The coup was instigated by part of the National Guards and a paramilitary organization called "Mkhedrioni". The country became embroiled in a bitter civil war which lasted almost until 1995. Eduard Shevardnadze returned to Georgia in 1992 and joined the leaders of the coup — Kitovani and Ioseliani — to head a triumvirate called the "State Council".

In 1995, Shevardnadze was officially elected as a president of Georgia. At the same time, two regions of Georgia, Abkhazia and South Ossetia, quickly became embroiled in disputes with local separatists that led to widespread inter-ethnic violence and wars. Supported by Russia, Abkhazia and South Ossetia achieved de facto independence from Georgia. More than 250,000 Georgians were ethnically cleansed from Abkhazia by Abkhaz separatists and North Caucasians volunteers (including Chechens) in 1992-1993. More than 25,000 Georgians were expelled from Tskhinvali as well, and many Ossetian families were forced to abandon their homes in the Borjomi region and move to Russia.

You hoot and holler about 100,000 Ossetian's leaving the front line?

[Elfie]

There is no evidence of ethnic cleansings done by Serbs. No intl commission found anything there.

Really....no evidence?

http://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/kosovoii/homepage.html

A central question is the number of Kosovar Albanian victims of Serbian forces in Kosovo. Many bodies were found when KFOR and the ICTY entered Kosovo in June 1999. The evidence is also now clear that Serbian forces conducted a systematic campaign to burn or destroy bodies, or to bury the bodies, then rebury them to conceal evidence of Serbian crimes. On June 4, at the end of the conflict, the Department of State issued the last of a series of weekly ethnic cleansing reports, available at www.state.gov/www/regions/eur/rpt_990604_ksvo_ethnic.html concluding that at least 6,000 Kosovar Albanians were victims of mass murder, with an unknown number of victims of individual killings, and an unknown number of bodies burned or destroyed by Serbian forces throughout the conflict.

On November 10, 1999, ICTY Chief Prosecutor Carla Del Ponte told the U.N. Security Council that her office had received reports of more than 11,000 killed in 529 reported mass grave and killing sites in Kosovo. The Prosecutor said her office had exhumed 2,108 bodies from 195 of the 529 known mass graves. This would imply about 6,000 bodies in mass graves in Kosovo if the 334 mass graves not examined thus far contain the same average number of victims. To this total must be added three important categories of victims: (1) those buried in mass graves whose locations are unknown, (2) what the ICTY reports is a significant number of sites where the precise number of bodies cannot be counted, and (3) victims whose bodies were burned or destroyed by Serbian forces. Press accounts and eyewitness accounts provide credible details of a program of destruction of evidence by Serbian forces throughout Kosovo and even in Serbia proper. The number of victims whose bodies have been burned or destroyed may never be known, but enough evidence has emerged to conclude that probably around 10,000 Kosovar Albanians were killed by Serbian forces.

More sources:

http://www.osce.org/odihr/item_11_17755.html  Files for download there.

Crimes documented by Human Rights Watch:  http://hrw.org/campaigns/kosovo98/timeline.shtml

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/fry/

http://www.islamawareness.net/Persecution/Kosovo/

There is plenty of evidence for the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo by the Serbs.

[angelsandair]

You mean directly killed by "liberators"?

I remember a number of 700,000 victims in Australian news in Oct 2006. Australian news - a good source? Don't you know there is a civil war?

Got any quotes?

Like I said, you're an idiot.

[Boroda]

There is plenty of evidence for the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo by the Serbs.

Only _after_ bombings began.

Quoting HRW is even more stupid then using Wikipedia as a "reliable source".

OK guys you persuaded me.

Your leadership lied for decades saying it's fighting Communist system in USSR. You just don't need powerful and independent Russia that has it's own policy protecting it's own interests.

[Elfie]

You killed over 4 million people in Vietnam.

The last time you used a figure of 3 million.

In 1995, the Vietnamese government reported that its military forces, including the NLF, suffered 1.1 million dead and 600,000 wounded during Hanoi's conflict with the United States. Civilian deaths were put at two million in the North and South, and economic reparations were expected.

Those figures would include civilians killed not only by the US, but also by ARVN forces, RoK units. Thai, Australian and New Zealand units also saw action in Vietnam. These are total casualty figures so they include the Vietnamese killed by other Vietnamese as well, you know, the NVA and Viet Cong units that killed other Vietnamese.

It is faulty to say the US killed all those people.

[Elfie]

Only _after_ bombings began.

The ethnic cleansing is the reason the bombings started.

Quoting HRW is even more stupid then using Wikipedia as a "reliable source".

If the articles at Wikipedia are documented, they can, and many times are, quite reliable. One only has to follow the documentation trail to find this out.

[Elfie]

Your leadership lied for decades saying it's fighting Communist system in USSR.

The Cold War wasn't a clash between two radically opposed ideologies? Both sides building massive stocks of weapons and munitions, fearful that their opponent might attack at any time? That didn't happen?

[Boroda]

The ethnic cleansing is the reason the bombings started.

If the articles at Wikipedia are documented, they can, and many times are, quite reliable. One only has to follow the documentation trail to find this out.

There were about 200 victims on each side in several years before the bombings began. After terrorists received massive military aid - Serbs were forced to counter-act.

Mind reading Serbian sources too, not only HRW "Serbs and Russians killed Jesus" screams. I don't trust any organisation sponsored by US govt funds. You are too famous for psy-ops.

[RedTop]

Re: USSR reborn?

Id say yes.....along with the cold war.....and it only took a couple of days.

[Elfie]

Serbs and Russians killed Jesus" screams.

As a Christian I actually find your....*killed Jesus* comments a bit on the ridiculous side since it was the Jews and Romans who did that.

[Elfie]

There were about 200 victims on each side in several years before the bombings began.

Keep believing the Russian propaganda machine. It's quite comical.

I showed multiple sources Boroda, not just HRW. All the sources agreed on the ethnic cleansing by the Serbs. But keep focusing on HRW and ignoring the rest.

[Toad]

Elfie, that comment is just part of his "poor, poor pitiful me" routine that whines that the Russians get blamed for everything even though they have never, ever done anything disgraceful.

If you want a real hoot, look up some of the old Katyn forest threads. Despite incontrovertible physical evidence and actual admission by both Gorbachev and Yeltsin, Boroda still makes the silliest denials that the NKVD killed the Poles. Those threads are even funnier than this one.

[Elfie]

Elfie, that comment is just part of his "poor, poor pitiful me" routine that whines that the Russians get blamed for everything even though they have never, ever done anything disgraceful.

If you want a real hoot, look up some of the old Katyn forest threads. Despite incontrovertible physical evidence and actual admission by both Gorbachev and Yeltsin, Boroda still makes the silliest denials that the NKVD killed the Poles. Those threads are even funnier than this one.

I've read some of those threads about the Katyn forest massacres. And some of the ones about the fighting between the Finns and the Soviets during WWII, his position on various things that have to do with the old USSR are quite comical. 

Although I have to say, that his position that Finland started the fighting and was responsible for thousands of lives lost because of their refusal to accept a land trade had to be the most ridiculous position he has tried to defend.