RE: Erich Hartmann

[croduh]

Typical day on Ah BBS

[Anaxogoras]

1 v 20 odds....was that over Poland?  Or Yugoslavia?  Denmark, perhaps, possibly Norway....

- oldman (or was it Belgium, or France, or Greece....so hard to remember....)

In the article it's implied that those were typical odds against the Russians.  Over Romania Hartmann claims that the odds were 30:1 because both the Russians and the Americans were operating there.

[clerick]

"Once I attacked a flight of four IL-2s and shot one up. All four tried to roll out in formation at low altitude, and all four crashed into the ground, unable to recover since their bomb loads reduced their maneuverability. Those were the easiest four kills I ever had."

Would those be counted as kills if it were an American pilot? I can see how they might be awarded as kills since they crashed as a result of his attack, but it seems like the real life equivalent of an AH proxy.


*EDIT*
"I made jerking turns left and right as they fired, but they fired from too far away to be effective. I was headed for the base so the defensive guns would help me."

Hartmann was a stick stirring ack-runner 

[Yenny]

Gotta even out the odd some how!

[Anaxogoras]

Would those be counted as kills if it were an American pilot?

I don't know.  Still, if using American standards, Hartmann's kill tally would likely have been greater because of the fractional kill credits that were awarded.

[Masherbrum]

"Once I attacked a flight of four IL-2s and shot one up. All four tried to roll out in formation at low altitude, and all four crashed into the ground, unable to recover since their bomb loads reduced their maneuverability. Those were the easiest four kills I ever had."

Would those be counted as kills if it were an American pilot? I can see how they might be awarded as kills since they crashed as a result of his attack, but it seems like the real life equivalent of an AH proxy.


*EDIT*
"I made jerking turns left and right as they fired, but they fired from too far away to be effective. I was headed for the base so the defensive guns would help me."

Hartmann was a stick stirring ack-runner 

No, it goes to show you the IL-2's were a bane to the Armor.   But, mincemeat to fighters in WWII.   Not the "game the game" dogfighters in here.   They crashed trying to do what AH'ers are able to do.   

[clerick]

There is no doubt that Hartmann was an extraordinary fighter pilot but, I have to wonder how he would have done if he wasn't on the Eastern Front where the pickin's seemed easy.

[Yenny]

Talented pilot would do good no matter what front they are in!

[clerick]

Talented pilot would do good no matter what front they are in!

Yes, BUT, would he have had anywhere near 350+ kills.

[ElGuapo1]

I am SOOOOOOOOOOOO   INNNNNNN

[clerick]

I am SOOOOOOOOOOOO   INNNNNNN

GUAPO!

[Anaxogoras]

There is no doubt that Hartmann was an extraordinary fighter pilot but, I have to wonder how he would have done if he wasn't on the Eastern Front where the pickin's seemed easy.

Ever read about his encounters with P-51D's?

[clerick]

Ever read about his encounters with P-51D's?

I did.  Again, I'm not saying he wasn't an excellent pilot, just wondering if he would have had the same success is all.  There were a number of German pilots that had hundreds of kills but, IIRC, they were on the eastern front too.  There were undoubtedly great allied pilots too, but they didn't achieve anywhere near the number of kills that the Germans did.  All I am wondering is what would have happened if Hartmann and the other uber German pilots had to fly in the same situations that the Allies did.

Just a interesting "what if."

[Anaxogoras]

Of course.  I agree that he probably wouldn't have reached 352.  Then again, Marseille scored his 158 victories against the western allies in a very short time.

[Masherbrum]

I did.  Again, I'm not saying he wasn't an excellent pilot, just wondering if he would have had the same success is all.  There were a number of German pilots that had hundreds of kills but, IIRC, they were on the eastern front too.  There were undoubtedly great allied pilots too, but they didn't achieve anywhere near the number of kills that the Germans did.  All I am wondering is what would have happened if Hartmann and the other uber German pilots had to fly in the same situations that the Allies did.

Just a interesting "what if."

They didn't, so you CANNOT compare them.