Author Topic: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?  (Read 2471 times)

eskimo

  • Guest
How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2000, 01:10:00 AM »
I think that most of us regulars whould have done very well with all of our virtual practice.
With out it, I'm sure I would have killed myself in basic flight training.

eskimo

Pepino

  • Guest
How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2000, 01:57:00 AM »
RAM, ETA is not Sinn Feinn. ETA is IRA without historical and political background.

Pepe

Offline Naso

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1535
      • http://www.4stormo.it
How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2000, 02:54:00 AM »
Q: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?

A: Probably be downed, and die.  

Offline Creamo

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5976
      • http://www.fatchicksinpartyhats.com
How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2000, 03:07:00 AM »
Do you think your flightsim experience like in AH would be of any use whatsoever if somehow you ended up in a WW2 air battle (provided that you got basic WW2 pilot training).

Absolutely.

It's the same reason why top Nascar drivers like Dale Jr. and a few others say playing NASCAR on their computers in fact was a benefit to them and they use it to acquire patience, learning tracks off season, and other such skills. I've read many articles where they praise racing simulations helping them. Of course they always say that it never "feels" like the real car, but there are many little lessons to be learned just the same.

As for combat sims, certainly formation flying, and wingmen tactics, ACM, BFM etc.. could be learned by getting into the situations over and over and over, ultimately gaining knowledge of tactics and fine tuning of skills. Had someone explained to me what "Boom and Zoom" was all about on paper, I would have not gotten it. My first time in a 190 that I barreled in and turned with a Spit, I was toast. The simulated environment taught a great lesson that paper could not have, or in real life would have been the end.

Another example- Although that stormy approach into O'hare in FlightSim 2000 isn't going to be pitching you up and down making you tense and sweat, scanning the gages, practicing your approach enhances skills for real life. The murderous fright and G force mayhem of a real fighter combat cant be simulated in all its physical and mental anguish, the general tactics can in fact be learned, such as a fighters strength and weakness, and learning the tactics to employ in a given situation and such.

Does this mean you could learn the flight model of say a Yak here, and then go jump in one and all the numbers line up like the sim? Naw, too many variables, but the general idea is there.

So yup, almost any advanced player here would be better off having learned a whole lot about combat tactics. Would they actual be good pilots?

Hell no! Half us fat bellybutton rutabagas drinking good cold beer and eating aged $7.99 per pound hot cow couldn't even get off the couch to mow the lawn without squeaking, let alone partake in something as horrible and brave as aerial combat. (OK, well Ripsnort will be OK, as he worked in AGAIN his feets of ultrahuman strength stuff inna a thread...lol)
Still, the rest of us that just play games, pursue money in a office, and are sacks 'O toejam, we'd be definatley the not ashamed tards we are.

Sheesh!

[In a related side note though, I always find it amusing that guys that are private pilots, or commercial pilots, are somehow look up upon more as if they have some greater knowledge of flying a combat flight sim. Lol, unless they are acrobatic pilots, flying VOR courses from LAX to PHX isn't exactly a daring fighter ace in the making.
Thats like saying I am a better Nascar driver than some 15 year old is cuz I drive a car 55 mph down a straight highway to work and he has no license. What the REAL difference is, these real pilots have the experience of knowing the theory of flight, and have a day to day experience of having to juggle the many complex tasks that can bombard you in real aircraft. IMHO, most AH pilots that think they are LW experts, would toejam their pants if they even had to start a real airplane and taxi to a runway at O'hare.   ]

Geez, what a Saw-sational post. Thank God 105 will be out in the morning.  

[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 12-21-2000).]

Offline Tyro48

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 261
How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2000, 04:12:00 AM »
Most would be dead within a week, your facing the real curtain call no second chances, you'd find yourself much more cautaious and willing to admit you dont know it all and can we hang with one of the Aces for a while.

Now you have weather to contend with,wind screwing up you shot, frantic radios calls, real death screams in your ears, ornery planes that may or may not do what your hoping for, in a nut shell it would scare the hell out of us, hopefully you live long enough to become numb to it all.

Offline Creamo

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5976
      • http://www.fatchicksinpartyhats.com
How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2000, 04:54:00 AM »
And with perk planes and new score system  ala 1.05, maybe there is in fact incentive to simulate "acting like real pilots would given a situation", enhansing the real life WWII combat sim we all want.

Unlike the free for all tardfest the MA has been.

I like it.

Offline Jigster

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 107
      • http://www.33rd.org
How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2000, 05:37:00 AM »
I'd wait till I got outta flight training, then seriously fudge my government karma so I'm too valuable for court marshall but not enough to be sent to the front lines  

I'd then use the valuable knowledge of sheep I learned from AW/AH and procede to put it to use on numerous deserted sheep farms around the US  


Offline Vermillion

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4012
How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2000, 06:16:00 AM »
Well... I don't know about combat.

But I did go jump into a real AT-6 Texan with zero real life flight hours, and flew very good aerobatics.

And the instructor asked me, "so how many hours sticktime do you REALLY have?" and my answer was "real or simulated?" He just laughed, thinking I was roadkillting him.

We would definitely have an advantage over most of the other raw recruit pilots that got thrown into combat in the war with just basic flight training.

But that doesn't mean any of us would be Eric Hartmann all of a sudden.  

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

Offline RAM

  • Parolee
  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 38
How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2000, 07:55:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Pepino:
RAM, ETA is not Sinn Feinn. ETA is IRA without historical and political background.

Pepe


I didnt say that...read again:

 
Quote
Originally posted by RAM:

(you dont know what is HB in USA, but lets say they are the ETA's Sinn Fein...
....
being ETA a radical terrorist group in the line of IRA...but without a real excuse)


HB is the political branch of ETA...so it is for ETA what the Sinn Feinn is for the IRA.

Pepe...no corrijas a un vasco sobre esto   por desgracia se DEMASIADO sobre el tema  


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-21-2000).]

Offline Midnight

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1809
      • http://www.brauncomustangs.org
How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2000, 08:48:00 AM »
I think I would do well enough to stay alive as long as I was flying with at least someone else to wing with. I flew 2 combat missions (8 total dogfights) at Air Combat USA and could handle the G-loads no problem.

I think also I need some classroom style training as to what ACM to use in what situation. But also, if it were real life, you got to figure both pilots are fighting for their very lives.

Case in point, If I was attacking a bandit and he wanted to go head-long for the deck at 350mph, let him. I wouldn't blow that kind of E for just one kill like I would do in the game. I think I would stay high and wait.

------------------
"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"

Midnight
13th TAS

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2000, 11:36:00 AM »
Creamo,

From personal experience, having some flying experience (including hundreds of hours of air combat training) definately helps out when flying sims.

The best example I have is my performance in the AH dueling tournament.  While having Drex on my team sure didn't hurt (sorry udie   I feel I had some amount of impact on our victories.  Why does my flying experience help?  Going into the AH con, I think I had flown AH a total of maybe 10-20 hours in the previous 6 months.  Yet when I got into the duels, it wasn't hard at all.  Even simple things like not spinning and augering at the merge (Can't remember which team did that hehe) is easier with real life experiences and real life combat reflexes.

Sure, some of my RL flying hurts me in the arena, mostly due to network lag buttering up my timing.  But on the whole, even waaaay back to when I was still a pilot trainee without wings, I have NEVER had a sustained K/D under 1 in WB or AH.  I'm not "that good", I've just seen it before thats all.

I agree 100%, RL pilots don't need to be put up on a pedestal, but the RL flying sure can make a sim pilot significantly better with less practice than many other gamers.

One bad side to having previous flying experience - flight model quirks are doubly irritating when you KNOW what's supposed to happen in certain situations, and it doesn't go that way in the game.  Add to that the fact that fighter pilots are a bunch of children (but man are we cool), and like Pyro said in his ramblings it is tough to not whine yourself to death.


------------------
eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Hangtime

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10148
How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2000, 12:11:00 PM »
"You fight like you train"

Considering this flight sim experience as training, I would get one or two kills and then get myself killed.

 

On a more serious note; with the stakes much much higher (your life; for real) an entire different set of priorities would apply. Consider that here we have the 'choice' of what aircraft, what mission, what objective; what loadout. In RL that does not apply.. and 'one way missions' were a real part of war in the sky.

All in all.. it would probably suck. I'd be terrified; far more stressed, more alert, intolerant of incompetence on the part of a section leader or wingman, would be one hell of a lot more serious about the job... yes; I'd be a 'hunter' but I'd be a damn sight more willing to leave the fight when caught at a disadvantage...

I'd fear escort duty the most. Each of those bombers had 10 men.. 10 men.. all dependng on the effiecncy, skill and determination of an escort fighter pilot to keep 'em alive.. I could handle the responsibilty for my own life.. for my wingie.. for a section if I'd trained 'em.. but those 10 men in those bombers.. somebody makes a mistake, they die. Scares the hell outta me just thinking about it.

I'd much prefer this as a game. In a real war; I'd rather be in the navy... on a gun mount.  

Hang

The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Animal

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5027
How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2000, 01:10:00 PM »
Well he said after going thru basic training.

Lets just say you will have more knowledge of the TACTICS of air combat, rather than an edge on how to fly the airplane better. Sims are no substitute for real life, not a chance.

I got my private lisence a few weeks back. But I remember my first landings, it was NOTHING like the sims, I had to do it over and over again until I got it right. In sims I used to do it with crosswinds and even thunderstorms, on a Cessna 152.

As for me, I would be an average fighter pilot. I am a good flier, but I have problems finding other planes in the sky (trust me lads, its not as easy as in sims, even a 747 is pretty hard to scan in a sunny day against the clouds)

One of my favorite things when flying around on long boring trips is to pretend I am a fighter pilot on patrol and constantly scan the skies for enemies   when I see other cessnas, I go for the kill. I never get to close tho   most of the time they never even know I was near.

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2000, 01:17:00 PM »
From where I am now?  Badly, very very badly.

Give me the full training and I think I'd do alright, a bit above average, nothing stunning by any means though.

Yes, I think that we'ed have an edge due to how much we've thought about how this stuff works.  A lot of the guys who did this had never thought about these concepts, nor had access to the information about it, until they found themselves in their respective air services' training programs.

I'm in OK physical shape and the military training would get me to where I would need to be.

I think I'd have a shot at becoming an ace, but I would certainly not run away from the field.

I can also see myself getting killed at this.

Sisu
-Karnak

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 12-21-2000).]
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline 1776

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 434
      • http://Iain'tgotno.com
How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2000, 02:08:00 PM »
Would be reduced to Water-boy as soon as I walked on the airfield!!