Second Night Reflections

[TheBug]

Actually the uncaptureable base idea was something we've already been thinking about.  After the great help from the CM terrain team they were able to make 3 Vbases and one Airbase uncaptureable on the BoB04 map.  These bases will be used to represent the Allied beachhead ( along with others, but that can be captured) in a future setup idea I have called  Campaign Series: Breakout Normandy!   

On this one I am thinking of making it so the Luftwaffe is pure defensive.  They hold the victory points at start and the level of victory will be determined by how much the Allies can wrestle from them. Will be able to do some strat stuff with the heavies on this one too. 

But I get ahead of myself.....  back to the situation at hand.   

[Damionte]

This was somethign I was goign to bring up earlier.

The war fighting population is much higher than you may think. The thing is that war fighting requires a lot of people. You can't reliably start fighting the war with just 4-5 people. You need closer to a dozen to really get things moving. So when the population goes up eventually someone will organize those of like minds and start trying to win the war.

Up until that time those war fighters are just furballing to pass the time. Because you only need 2 people to get a good fight going.

I am firmly against unconquerable bases. They put a strategic hole int he map that is too easy to exploit.

I am also against requiring the rarer planes be placed in the rear. I want the ability to put the planes in the places strategically I think they'll do the most good. It is up to the side commander to put them in the right place. If he puts them in the wrong place that is not the fault of the set up, that is the fault of the commander for not taking all factors into account.

Capturing bases always gets harder as you go deeper. Flight time is a big factor.

Strategic thinking isn't just about the rules on the map. You have to take population and player mindset into account.

[TheBug]

I am firmly against unconquerable bases.

Ok what do you do when the Axis kick the Allies off the continent?  Makes for a boring arena.  Also uncaptureable bases are a great feature to an arena that is severely effected by resets.  You have to look at the situation from all angles.

[Anaxogoras]

1.  This map gave the allies a big strategic advantage in the possible placement of rare planes (the triple bases).
2.  Resets kill the ava.

[crockett]

I am also against requiring the rarer planes be placed in the rear. I want the ability to put the planes in the places strategically I think they'll do the most good. It is up to the side commander to put them in the right place. If he puts them in the wrong place that is not the fault of the set up, that is the fault of the commander for not taking all factors into account.

Yes but then everyone who just wants to come in for a fight and doesn't care about winning a war suffers. Just like right now, the allies have 3 bases close together that are of course the smartest place to put their better aircraft. It also just happens to be close to the front lines. Then on the flip side the Axis had to stuff their better aircraft way off in the distance because we have only one front line base.

While both choices are likely the best choices for protection of those air craft's bases, but it also forces everyone in the arena suffer with that decision no matter if it's right or wrong. Think of it from the fun perspective, the allies pretty much have choice of any aircraft in their plane set within 5 mins flight to the front lines. Axis on the other hand get stuck with the same limited aircraft unless we want to fly 15 mins.

The allies out of pure luck with the terrain set up, have a group of 3 bases close to the front lines that are pretty much uncapturable. Axis don't have that same benefit so it ends up making things unbalanced. So in short every one's game gets affected by the win the war stuff and maybe they don't care about the war.

I'm not a fan of having too many of the better aircraft active, but I'm also not a fan of having to stuff them way off behind the lines and never have them used. I think perking would be the best option, but from what Bug said that's not a option so we need to figure something else out.

[a4944]

Look at the midwar planeset.  It's the Spit V and 109F.  Many are already flying them in early war.  Kind of defeats the purpose of early war if they are widely available.

Venom

[Shifty]

Look at the midwar planeset.  It's the Spit V and 109F.  Many are already flying them in early war.  Kind of defeats the purpose of early war if they are widely available.

Venom

Actually Venom, they probably wouldn't be so widely used this setup if it wasn't for fluke in the map, or savy placement by Drack. Whatever the case next week will have new rare aircraft on both sides and you can probably expect different placement rules. This campaign series is still in the beta stage as it were. Bug is doing a good job of asking what's working and not working, and taking ideas and noting what people are unhappy about to make changes. He never said it would be perfect right out of the box, and it would need tuning.<S>

As for people not liking the war scenarios, after each one the AVA staff runs three to four weeks of normal AVA setups. They're trying to make as many people happy as possible. Personally I like the normal setups better than the wars, but the wars do seem to bring in more people and are popular. Your turn for the regular setups comes back around in the rotation. It's not like the war is all the AVA does now.

[Damionte]

Ok what do you do when the Axis kick the Allies off the continent?  Makes for a boring arena.  Also uncaptureable bases are a great feature to an arena that is severely effected by resets.  You have to look at the situation from all angles.

If they push us off the continent then I call that a win for the axis. We reset the map and start over. Talking in pure hypothetical doesn't help much though. The maps are too large and the population too small to push one side off the map.

[hammer]

On reflection, my rambling was a bit of a hijack. Lots of my thoughts were long-term vs this particular setup. Some could be applied to this setup, though.

Another thought I had was to encourage squads to show up 1 night a week to fight the actual war. This could be the night the current setup works for, then adjust plane availability etc for the other nights. Yet another thought, and not necessarily related to or even compatible with my other ideas, would be to align the AvA setup with either this week's snapshot or the month's FSO. This would allow practice with the planesets and might encourage some who participate in those events to give AvA a try.

Regards,

Hammer

[TheBug]

If they push us off the continent then I call that a win for the axis. We reset the map and start over. Talking in pure hypothetical doesn't help much though. The maps are too large and the population too small to push one side off the map.

The Allies would start with only a couple bases on the continent to represent the invasion. 

To dismiss a problem that has been an issue with the AvA for many years and has been the reason for not having troop capture enabled, with a lower number of troops, seems pretty bold to me. 

[a4944]

Actually Venom, they probably wouldn't be so widely used this setup if it wasn't for fluke in the map, or savy placement by Drack. Whatever the case next week will have new rare aircraft on both sides and you can probably expect different placement rules. This campaign series is still in the beta stage as it were. Bug is doing a good job of asking what's working and not working, and taking ideas and noting what people are unhappy about to make changes. He never said it would be perfect right out of the box, and it would need tuning.<S>

As for people not liking the war scenarios, after each one the AVA staff runs three to four weeks of normal AVA setups. They're trying to make as many people happy as possible. Personally I like the normal setups better than the wars, but the wars do seem to bring in more people and are popular. Your turn for the regular setups comes back around in the rotation. It's not like the war is all the AVA does now.

Not complaining, just suggesting.  I love this set-up so far.  I'm having a great time.  Put me down for just fine tuning.  I don't much care for the in-between times with no backdrop to the fight.  There is opportunity for furballs and opportunity for raids with this setup.  Base capture and the war impact will pick up the next two rounds with more capable aircraft.  I think we will have a different style of game as we transition to late war which is great.  More variety.

Venom

[a4944]

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