Author Topic: My thoughts and ideas about Perk Planes.  (Read 453 times)

Offline Karnak

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My thoughts and ideas about Perk Planes.
« on: October 02, 2000, 01:54:00 PM »
I have been thinking about how perk planes should be done.  What should be perked and what should not.  I have come to the conclusion that certain aircraft we already have should be perked as well as some that are being requested.  What will happen to the Fw190A-5 and Spitfire MkIX if the Fw190D-9 and Spitfire MkXIV are introduced as non-perks?  Just look at the Spitfire MkVb and Bf109F-4 to get an idea.  They'll fall into disuse.

The following is a run down of what I would like to see.  It includes aircraft that are not yet in AH and have not been announced by HTC.  The categories are:

Bonus: Bonus points are awarded for successful actions in this aircraft.
Normal: Normal aircraft can be used at no cost, but successful actions do not have a bonus points.
Perk: Perk aircraft cost some points in order to use.
Ultra Perk Ultra Perk aircraft cost many points in order to use them.

Bonus Units
F4F = Bonus (Not yet added)
Hurricane MkI = Bonus (Not yet added)
Spitfire MkIa = Bonus (Not yet added)
Bf109E-3 = Bonus (Not yet added)
Bf110C-4 = Bonus (Not yet added)
P-40B = Bonus (Not yet added)
P-39 = Bonus (Not yet added)
A6M2 = Bonus (Not yet added)
A5M = Bonus (Not yet added)
Ki-45 = Bonus (Not yet added)
C.202 = Bonus
I-16 = Bonus (Not yet added)
D.520 = Bonus (Not yet added)
Blenheim = Bonus (Not yet added)
Ju87B = Bonus (Not yet added)
He111 = Bonus (Not yet added)
G4M = Bonus (Not yet added)
C-47 = Bonus
M-3 = Bonus

Normal Units
F4U-1A = Normal
F6F-5 = Normal
TBF = Normal
SBD = Normal (Not yet added)
Hurricane MkIIc = Normal (Not yet added)
Spitfire MkVb = Normal
Spitfire MkIX = Normal
Fw190A-5 = Normal
Fw190A-8 = Normal
Bf109F-4 = Normal
Bf109G-2 = Normal
Bf109G-6 = Normal
Bf110G = Normal (Not yet added)
Me410 = Normal (Not yet added)
Mustang MkI/P-51A = Normal (Not yet added)
P-51B = Normal (Not yet added) <Needs to be added>
P-47C = Normal (Not yet added) <Needs to be added>
P-40C = Normal (Not yet added)
P-38F = Normal (Not yet added)
P-38H = Normal (Not yet added) <Needs to be added>
A6M3 = Normal (Not yet added)
A6M5b = Normal
Ki-61 Ib = Normal (Not yet added)
La-5N = Normal
Yak-9U = Normal
C.205 = Normal
Typhoon = Normal
B-17G = Normal
B-25 =  
B-26B = Normal
Lancaster = Normal
Ju88A-4 = Normal
SM.79 = Normal (Not yet added)
Pe-2 = Normal (Not yet added)
Il-2 = Normal (Not yet added)
Panzer IV-H = Normal
M3A4 = Normal (Not yet added)
T-34-85 = Normal (Not yet added)
M-16 = Normal


Perk Units
F4U-1C = Perk
Spitfire MkXIV = Perk (Not yet added)
Fw190D-9 (MW50) = Perk (Not yet added)
Bf109G-10 = Perk
P-51D = Perk
P-47D-25 = Perk
P-47D-30 = Perk
P-38L = Perk
N1K2 = Perk
La-7 = Perk (Not yet added)
Tempest MkV = Perk (Not yet added)
B-29A = Perk (Not yet added)
Ar234 = Perk (Not yet added)
Ki-84 = Perk (Not yet added)
Me262A = Perk (Not yet added)
Panther V = Perk (Not yet added)
Ostwind = Perk

Ultra Perk Units
F4U-4 = Ultra Perk (Not yet added)
Spitfire MkF.21 = Ultra Perk (Not yet added)
Ta152 = Ultra Perk (Not yet added)
P-51H = Ultra Perk (Not yet added)
P-47N = Ultra Perk (Not yet added)
Meteor MkIV = Ultra Perk (Not yet added)
P-80 = Ultra Perk (Not yet added)
Ki-100 = Ultra Perk (Not yet added)


Under this idea people would be encouraged to fly early war aircraft as well as perform the transport function.  It would also have the effect of having the mid-war aircraft form the bulk of the work in the MA.  The Fw190A-5 and Spitfire MkIX would not be relegated to the roles of have beens.

What do you guys think?

Sisu
-Karnak
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Nath-BDP

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My thoughts and ideas about Perk Planes.
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2000, 02:36:00 PM »
higher number for the Ki series doesn't neccesarily mean better aircraft, the Ki 84 was superior to the Ki 100.

Btw Me 262 is also better than Meteor...

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[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 10-02-2000).]

Offline Karnak

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My thoughts and ideas about Perk Planes.
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2000, 02:43:00 PM »
Nath-BDP,
I did a more time based system.  I figured two things about the Me262, A) That I should give some credit to the Germans and B) that the LW fans would squeal like stuck pigs if I had it some other way.

From what I've read, the Ki-100 was better than the Ki-84, if the opposite is true then they should be reversed.

Sisu
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Petals floating by,
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             As she remembers me-

Offline RAM

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My thoughts and ideas about Perk Planes.
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2000, 03:14:00 PM »
P51B non perk and P51D perk?...

P51B was lighter, better fighter than D version. If you are going to perk the 51, perk ALL of them, or let all of them alone.

Of course that will make P47s, Fw190D9s and spits XIVs normal planes, too.

It is a good idea, karnak...but I doubt it will work.

Offline Maverick

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My thoughts and ideas about Perk Planes.
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2000, 03:20:00 PM »
<--- gets on fire suit and smears gel liberally.

In my opinion there is no need for perk aircraft. If the player is having a great streak, fine. Why make it easier for that player to make kills. Just leave planes available for all players. Or if a perk must be added make it a weaker plane like the Brewster Buffalo.

<loads fire extinguisher.

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Offline flakbait

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My thoughts and ideas about Perk Planes.
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2000, 05:20:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick:
<--- gets on fire suit and smears gel liberally.

In my opinion there is no need for perk aircraft. If the player is having a great streak, fine. Why make it easier for that player to make kills. Just leave planes available for all players. Or if a perk must be added make it a weaker plane like the Brewster Buffalo.

<loads fire extinguisher.

Mav

So you want to punish everyone who doesn't want to fly very late-war aircraft? This is why we need a perk system; to prevent people from using Ta-152s, P-47Ns, and Spit XIVs, on every single flight. You think the whining is bad now? Just wait until HT throws in a P-51H or a Tempest V and doesn't perk it. You'll see every hard-core pilot here screaming his lungs out about it.

This is a bad recipie for disaster, Mav.

Karnak, nice work but it needs some further tinkering. I can see where you're coming from, and that you're trying to get more early-war aircraft here. By using your system as it stands, that's what you'll do. However, perking aircraft like P-51Ds or P-47Ds isn't a good thing. They're good planes, just not bad enough to perk. P-51Hs and P-47Ns should be perked, as should the Me-262, Ta-152, and Spit XIV.

Basically anything that will out-perform typical aircraft flown, or that might seriously upset the main should get perked. An example:
P-51D and Fw-190D9 are nearly on even terms, so neither should get perked. However, if you throw a P-51H against that same Dora it'll be a hands-down P51 victory. The aircraft itself is the problem, because it'll out-perform alomst anything normally flown in the MA.

A perk plane system is supposed to make it more a measure of pilot skill than aircraft performance. It can't be biased, it can't be done arbitrarily, and it HAS to work perfectly the first time. If anything goes wrong, consider your hearing gone and your patience history. Every whiner will strike the General Discussion board at the same time. They'll scream about anything and anything until everyone, maybe even HT, has had enough.

I'd change it around a bit, personally. Ultra-Perks are aircraft like Me-163s, He-162s, Me-262s, Ta-152s, SpitXIVs, etc... Those are obvious; the rest, well. You're trying to turn most of the future plane-set into one giant perk system. Don't. There should be very few aircraft perked, or the MA will just be Spit Is and Bf-109 Bs. F4Fs or Betty's are the only A/C you can earn points in?

Try this. Take your Bonus Points and Normal Units and stick them together. Now come up with a point system for each aircraft. One number is how many points someone else gets for killing it, the other is a modifier.

Example:
Hurricane IID [twin 40mm cannons] blows up an Ostwind.

Hurricane IID [5 death points, .5 modifier]
Ostwind [10 death points, .3 modifier]

Since the modifier is .5 the Hurricane pilot only gets 5 points for killing the Ostwind. Now if he'd done it with a Bf-110 C4 [25 death points, .6 modifier] he would've gotten  6 points. See? This is the system Pyro had/has in mind for the perk system.

Flakbait
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funked

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My thoughts and ideas about Perk Planes.
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2000, 05:31:00 PM »
I'd save the perks for things that barely saw combat (appeared after 1/1/45) and the ultra-perks should be jets and planes that didn't make it into combat.

Offline Replicant

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My thoughts and ideas about Perk Planes.
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2000, 06:06:00 PM »
Agree Funked.  Also I don't want too many perk planes as that would mean a lot of work going into planes that 95% of us would never get the chance to fly  

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Offline Spatula

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My thoughts and ideas about Perk Planes.
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2000, 07:47:00 PM »
I still personally think the perk system is BS. It gives the very people who *dont* need the best planes, aircraft that will easily outperform 90% of the aircraft in the arena who, by the very nature of the system, will mostly be the 'less able' pilots. Seal clubbing anyone?

As for the augument that eveyone will fly the newer models then so be it, this is exactly what happened in RL.

I can see both sides of the argument, but why introduce a system the keeps most people flying obsoleted planes while the top 10% of pilots get to fly monsters????
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Offline LLv34_Camouflage

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My thoughts and ideas about Perk Planes.
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2000, 08:12:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick:
Or if a perk must be added make it a weaker plane like the Brewster Buffalo.

Ohh, gotta start collecting points right away!  



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Offline Vermillion

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My thoughts and ideas about Perk Planes.
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2000, 07:05:00 AM »
 
Quote
barely saw combat (appeared after 1/1/45)

Barely saw combat? Oh so the war was over at that point?

{Sore point, rant mode=ON}

Tell that to all the families of the men that died at Iwo Jima, Okinawa, the battle for the Phillipines, the B-29 crews over homeland Japan, and all the men who died to Kamikazes.

This attitude of "Oh it didn't really count after the fall of 1944, because the Luftwaffe virtually didnt exist" is pure crap.

Some of the heaviest American casulties came in 1945. And there were continuous airbattles in the Pacific up until the very day of the Surrender, and if you want to push the issue, I will post them here.

Yes, the results of the war were a foregone conclusion, but the Japanese were going to make us pay, and we paid heavily in blood.

To suggest that "it didn't really count" is a serious insult to the men, and their families, that paid the highest price.

{Sore point, rant mode=OFF}

Come on Funked you know better than that.  

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Offline Karnak

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My thoughts and ideas about Perk Planes.
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2000, 10:04:00 AM »
Vermillion,
I see your point, but Funked has a point as well.  Most of the fighting in '45 was done in aircraft that were introduced in '43 and '44.  Don't make the mistake of thinking that an American airman who was killed in '45 was flying a '45 aircraft, he probably wasn't.  Thus we still have the situation where aircraft introduced after 1/1/1945 did not see nearly so much combat as those introduced even by 6/1/1944.  It takes a good bit of time after the first production examples roll off the assembly line until there is a substantial number in combat.

We should certainly not forget those who died in the last year of the war though.

Replicant and others,
You guys make some good points about my idea having too many perk planes.  Ah well.

Hopefully when the system is introduced it doesn't end up meaning Hangtime in a P-51H, Torque in a F4U-4C and Fishu in a Me262 along with others in their skill rank while the rest of us slog on with 1942 stuff.

Sisu
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      Drift through my woman's hand,
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Offline sourkraut

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My thoughts and ideas about Perk Planes.
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2000, 11:53:00 AM »
I hate the thought of perk planes. My $29.95 is just as good as anyone elses.

Better yet, why not have some method of controlling the spawn rate for each plane?
Base it on production numbers, uberness or something, just don't limit my access to it because I suck or don't fly enough.

Sour

Offline Wingnut_0

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My thoughts and ideas about Perk Planes.
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2000, 01:28:00 PM »
Everyone's saying it would limit you to fly a certain AC, but by the original post I don't see that.

He was merely suggesting a point system that could give or make you loose points for actions in the newer model planes.

Overall it's not a bad problem as long as you don't have to have x number of points to fly that AC.  The only problem with adding vehicles is that everyone flocks to the new AC.

There does need to be some workable solution to it, and all games suffer from it.

I like flying the 109F and 109G2, though I do fly the 109G10 when I think buffs are in the area.  Ppl that fly the older model AC are constantly running into much older AC that are no longer a match but highly superior, thus forcing most players to eventually grab a late warbird them selves.

Affecting how your rating's look (by loosing or gaining points) is a nice start, though not the final solution.  

Wingnut

Offline juzz

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« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2000, 02:49:00 PM »
Lucky that 360mph Kawasaki is an ultra-perk, cause that's pretty quick... for a motorcycle.