Author Topic: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge  (Read 3529 times)

Offline Baitman

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #105 on: September 06, 2008, 08:47:00 PM »
Why wait for volt when you can have a Tesla Roadster now... http://www.teslamotors.com/  :D
I have been watching them also but they are a little pricey and the production is sold out for over a year.

I have heard rumors about the stability of the company also :O
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Offline Nashwan

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #106 on: September 06, 2008, 09:03:56 PM »
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However, if we drill what there is domestically, fully exploit wind, encourage synfuel coal, build nuclear, natural gas, residential solar, and otherwise diversify our energy supply, we could reduce our foreign oil dependence massively to where a cut in supply from any one region or country would only effect the mix by a few percent.

Wind, coal, nuclear and solar will not displace much oil consumption.

More than two thirds of all oil in the US is used for transport. Most of the rest goes for plastics, lubricant etc.

About the only oil that could be easily displaced is that used for home heating, and that's a few percent of the total.

The problem with oil is that it's becoming too expensive. You can't solve that problem by proposing even more expensive alternatives like electric cars, cng cars etc.

In Europe we have very high fuel taxes, taking the price of gasoline and diesel to over $8 a gallon. Do you know what powers cars in Europe? Diesel and gasoline. Even at $8 or more a gallon, the alternatives are still more expensive.

There is one thing the US could do to eliminate its dependence on foreign oil, but it's unpalatable to most Americans. Tax fuel more. Get diesel and gasoline up to $8 a gallon in the US and you will use about as much per capita as western Europe, which is not much more than half what you use now. Do that and the US would need about 12 million barrels a day, nearly all of which would come from the US, Canada and Mexico.

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I think it's safe to assume she knows more about her own state than you or I do.

She's a politician. You know, one of those people who lie for a living.

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What exploration needs to be done in ANWR?

They have to explore to find where to drill. They know there is oil in the area, but not how much, or exactly where. From the EIA report, 2008:

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There is little direct knowledge regarding the petroleum geology of the ANWR region. The USGS oil resource estimates are based largely on the oil productivity of geologic formations that exist in the neighboring State lands and which continue into ANWR. Consequently, there is considerable uncertainty regarding both the size and quality of the oil resources that exist in ANWR. Thus, the potential ultimate oil recovery and potential yearly production are highly uncertain.

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They already know exactly where to drill, it's a 2000 acre section of the coastal plain.

I think you are a bit confused about this "2000 acres" thing.

The north coastal plain of ANWR where they want to explore and drill is 1.5 million acres. The figure of 2000 acres comes from a senate proposal that the total surface area of all the oil installations would not not exceed 2,000 acres. So that's, for example, 200 10 acre bases each containing a well head, helipad, couple of buildings etc (of course it would consist of lots of different sized facilities, that's just an example)

So no, there's isn't a 2000 acre plot where they know to drill, there's 1.5 million acres that have to be explored, because all they know at the moment is the basic geology of the area.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2008, 09:11:46 PM by Nashwan »

Offline lyric1

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #107 on: September 06, 2008, 09:17:42 PM »
Being in the car bizz, I've been to many government auctions.
these cars are older and retired from service.
 You would not believe the amount of cars the government uses that are run on natural gas.
there are two tanks in the car,a regular gas tank and a tank in the trunk that holds
natural gas.
 we already have the technology for natural gas cars...hope we expand on it!!
In Australia they have been doing this for almost 20 years or so. All gas stations have Petroleum & LPG gas pumps.

Offline lyric1

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #108 on: September 06, 2008, 09:20:58 PM »
anyone notice that now old t boone is pushing cng more than wind?  it seems only weeks ago that wind was gonna save us now it is cng.

We need to do all those things..  Drilllllll... Nukes..  wind.. solar.. alchemy.. cng.. coal.. oil shale..

we need some breathing room but we have all the makings for all the raw energy to run our entire country cheaply right here.. right on our own land..

Some of it we haven't figured out how to use.. or to use safely but.. we will.. it will take some time tho.

Drill for the crude and the cng big time... we need them right now...  the rest will follow.

The arabs turn down the pumps?   already they are realizing that most countries can't afford their new prices.  They will have to lower prices not cut production..  we are the country most able to afford to buy anything.. including oil.. if we can't afford it then struggling countries will go tits up or.. at least.. cut down to nothing on their oil use.

That may sound good to some extremist algor-ites but the world runs on energy.. cheap energy cuts down on the missery factor.   no cheap energy means death and missery for millions.  slow death by starvation and disease.

lazs
You assume that third world countries pay a lot or the same as us in the West? They don't most get it for pennies compared to the rest of us. Granted they only have pennies to spend though.

Offline lyric1

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #109 on: September 06, 2008, 09:27:42 PM »
No, that doesn't make sense. Oil companies make money by producing oil, not by sitting on it. If any of them had large enough market share it might be worthwhile to reduce production, but none of the western oil companies are anywhere near big enough.
You are thinking short term with this logic. So why do some companies only pump the minimum from the rigs instead of there maximum potential? Or then go & cap producing wells off?

Offline Nashwan

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #110 on: September 07, 2008, 07:48:56 AM »
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You assume that third world countries pay a lot or the same as us in the West? They don't most get it for pennies compared to the rest of us.

No, they pay the same for oil as everyone else. Of course the oil may be paid for with aid money from the west, but they are still paying market price for the oil.

Of course some countries subsidise fuel sales to the public, just as others tax it, so the price to then consumer can vary from a few cents per gallon to over $10. But the underlying cost of the fuel is the same, it's just a matter of whether the government is taxing or subsidising it.

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You are thinking short term with this logic. So why do some companies only pump the minimum from the rigs instead of there maximum potential? Or then go & cap producing wells off?

They don't, unless there are technical reasons for doing so.

Western oil companies are actually producing far more oil than their reserves would suggest, which is why their replacement ratio is so low.

OPEC as a whole has a reserves to production ratio of 72.7, meaning their oil will last 72.7 years at the current rate of production.

Compare that to western countries where the oil companies are not constrained by government in how much they can produce:

US - 11.7
Canada - 22.9
UK - 6
Norway - 8.8

The western oil companies are producing oil as fast as they can, indeed in some cases they are reducing overall production in order to maximise current production. They want revenue now, not the possibility of revenue at some point in the future.

Offline john9001

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #111 on: September 07, 2008, 08:11:33 AM »
someone asked what palin knows about the oil business, she was chairperson of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission : 2003-04


just the facts.

Offline Elfie

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #112 on: September 07, 2008, 09:25:26 AM »
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The western oil companies are producing oil as fast as they can, indeed in some cases they are reducing overall production in order to maximise current production. They want revenue now, not the possibility of revenue at some point in the future.

That isn't making sense to me. You reduce production in order to maximize production for revenue now and not in the future?  :huh

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US - 11.7

That taking into account ANWR, offshore reserves and the Bakken oil fields?
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Offline Nashwan

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #113 on: September 07, 2008, 10:04:12 AM »
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That isn't making sense to me. You reduce production in order to maximize production for revenue now and not in the future?

You can damage a field, and reduce its overall yield, if you take oil out of it too fast. You produce more now at the cost of less in the future, and less overall.

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That taking into account ANWR, offshore reserves and the Bakken oil fields?

No. Those figures are a measure of how fast already explored fields are being worked, they aren't a measure of when the oil is going to run out. They ignore future discoveries. For example, the US R/P ratio was 10.8 back in 2000.

Offline Baitman

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #114 on: September 07, 2008, 11:40:01 AM »
OPEC as a whole has a reserves to production ratio of 72.7, meaning their oil will last 72.7 years at the current rate of production.

Compare that to western countries where the oil companies are not constrained by government in how much they can produce:

US - 11.7
Canada - 22.9
UK - 6
Norway - 8.8

The western oil companies are producing oil as fast as they can, indeed in some cases they are reducing overall production in order to maximise current production. They want revenue now, not the possibility of revenue at some point in the future.


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Canada's proven oil reserves were estimated at 179 billion barrels (28×109 m3) in 2007. This figure includes oil sands reserves which are estimated by government regulators to be economically producible at current prices using current technology. According to this figure, Canada's reserves are second only to Saudi Arabia. Over 95% of these reserves are in the oil sands deposits in the province of Alberta.

At the current rate of production Canada will a reserve life of 182 years.
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Offline bj229r

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #115 on: September 07, 2008, 11:53:30 AM »
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Compare that to western countries where the oil companies are not constrained by government in how much they can produce:
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

(I'm sure you mean the daily mechanics of it, not the endless. mindless regulation, and outright opposition)
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Offline Nwbie

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #116 on: September 07, 2008, 12:12:56 PM »
There can't be oil in alaska.... I thought oil came from decomposed dinosaurs...and every good creationist believer knows that is impossible...so it would be a waste of money trying to get something that couldn't possibly be there.......




 :uhoh


Drill now ... it is stupid to not do it...we are dependent on oil...we live in a society that even though has the capabilities to stop being dependent on it...we will continue to do so because it is one of our largest employers...one of the largest contributors to our gdp, including the auto industry... and the amount of danger to the planet is miniscule... if you really care - stop buying bottled water..the bottles are made from oil products..they are filling up landfills and will never decompose...two birds with one stone...Bottled water is for ijots...

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Offline AquaShrimp

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #117 on: September 07, 2008, 02:13:17 PM »
Cellulosic ethanol will eventually replace gasoline. Mark my words.

Offline Chalenge

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #118 on: September 07, 2008, 02:18:34 PM »
Cellulosic ethanol will eventually replace gasoline. Mark my words.

This process was patented under Carter who refused to back it Congress denied bringing it to the floor for funding and their it remains. I believe the man who came up with the process was using things like wood chips and grass clippings to make ethanol fuel and it was cheaper then the process they use on corn now. Lobbied into non-existence the inventor moved to Brazil and made a fortune.
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Offline Buzzard7

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #119 on: September 07, 2008, 02:30:56 PM »
Actually there are some pretty big numbers of wells that are either not pumping or pumping at low low levels here in the US. Some of them only just turned them back on when the prices went up. Anyone care to explain this? Good luck finding that kind of information. Most of it is hush hush so we don't all go stomp the fools doing it.