Author Topic: money and credit out of thin air  (Read 1008 times)

Offline gunnss

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #45 on: September 23, 2008, 07:24:41 PM »
Grin,

I know a whole bunch about rail. Fact is AMTRAC had it's budget increased 15 times this year, a good thing, lots of equipment need replacing. How ever the bad news is that much of the system is operating at saturation levels. For example the Transcon from LA to CHI is currently running at 120 trains a day. That is one train every 12 minuets this means that there is no room in the system for more trains on that route. (Note the dual tracking of the whole route will be complete in about 2 or so years which will bump traffic up to around 150 trains a day) There are eight trans con routes not all of them are that busy but all are being run at 80% or more traffic. Coincidentally this is why Warren Buffet is investing heavily in rail roads, they are allready making money. but the fact is that the rail roads don't have a lot of space left to add service. Also please note that the majority of RR traffic is now Intermodal (shipping container) and bulk minerials. (coal) transporting other cargos will cost a lot more when they don't fit in the big steel box.

BTW most pepole eat from 1 to two pounds of food a day, in a city like Phoenix that is 2+ million consumers, that is 1 to 2 thousand tons of food a day. (approx 35, 60 ton rail cars a day) I  grew up in Phoenix, and there is no way that much food can be produced in the local (1/2 days drive) area. Bigger cities will have bigger problems. And that is just food, what about paper towels, toilet paper, soap, etc.

Have fum,
Kevin
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Offline Bodhi

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2008, 08:56:25 PM »
Grin,

I know a whole bunch about rail. Fact is AMTRAC had it's budget increased 15 times this year, a good thing, lots of equipment need replacing. How ever the bad news is that much of the system is operating at saturation levels. For example the Transcon from LA to CHI is currently running at 120 trains a day. That is one train every 12 minuets this means that there is no room in the system for more trains on that route. (Note the dual tracking of the whole route will be complete in about 2 or so years which will bump traffic up to around 150 trains a day) There are eight trans con routes not all of them are that busy but all are being run at 80% or more traffic. Coincidentally this is why Warren Buffet is investing heavily in rail roads, they are allready making money. but the fact is that the rail roads don't have a lot of space left to add service. Also please note that the majority of RR traffic is now Intermodal (shipping container) and bulk minerials. (coal) transporting other cargos will cost a lot more when they don't fit in the big steel box.

BTW most pepole eat from 1 to two pounds of food a day, in a city like Phoenix that is 2+ million consumers, that is 1 to 2 thousand tons of food a day. (approx 35, 60 ton rail cars a day) I  grew up in Phoenix, and there is no way that much food can be produced in the local (1/2 days drive) area. Bigger cities will have bigger problems. And that is just food, what about paper towels, toilet paper, soap, etc.

Have fum,
Kevin

Kevin, that's my point.  Here is Colorado Springs where I am at, we see several trains a day either crawling up the hill towards the N with empty bulk cars (coal) and several headed south each day loaded to the gills with coal.  That does not begin to count the amount of cars and tankers we see.  When the coal train for our Coal Power plant arrives, it locks the through rail up for about a 1/3 a day as they break the train down to fit into the unloading yard.  Then spend another 1/3 a day hooking it all back up and head N. 

The rail system can not carry the OTR if it were to collapse due to fuel costs.  The infrastructure is just not there.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2008, 12:07:25 AM »
I can maintain my own vehicle, I refuse to buy something that I will not be able to maintain such as some electric POS that will not tow an aircraft or haul an R-2800 in the bed.



 

normally, your replies appear much much more intelligent than this.

you don't have a clue as to how powerful electric motors can be, do you? supplied with the proper voltage, and current, an electric motor will out-anything an internal combustion engine.
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Offline FrodeMk3

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2008, 12:14:54 AM »
Sorry, didn't read this statement correctly the first time.  I took you to mean that you had a high mpg vehicle that you could not maintain on your own.

Well, if you've already gotten in your mind that the product offered is a POS, whichever product you've looked at, I doubt we'll get very far into this convo.  People with large weights to be hauled are obviously going to be saddled with larger, less fuel effecient vehicles.

Where there is a will, there is a way.  If we as consumers create the demand for local food, it will be fufilled.  Will our food supplies change much?  Probably not.  At least not with the crazy subsidies we hand out yearly.  If we wish to keep discussing the merits of encouraging local foods, I suggest we move it to another thread.

Actually, its the best alternative we have available.  Most of the infrastructure, as far as right-of-way and major industrial connections are there.  Improving what we already have is mostly all thats needed.  Well, and a system to seperate the freight from the passenger timetables to make rail travel appealing.

With more reliance on rail we'd be taking the large cross country trucks off the roads.  They would be replaced with local drivers making the deliveries from the local depots and vice versa.  Jobs still there, local now infact.  Goods still delivered.  And it would take less fuel, helping to ease our reliance on foreign evergy.

Doubt it.  Unless we're the ones starting it.  Everyone else is making money off it being so expensive.

Bongaroo, I'd like to point out a couple of things, especially with the farming scheme. Firstly, many of the large cities' in the U.S. are not really in ideal locations' for farming, or have expanded so much that the arable land has been paved over. Take Los Angeles, for example. They used to grow Oranges where Disneyland is now, But as soon as you come from the direction I live in (North of L.A.) and drop into the San Fernando valley, the only thing's growing green are lawns. The city has spread up to, and actually up, the foothills. To find any open land that would be farmable, you would have to go over to the coast near Ventura or Oxnard, which are both still pretty heavily built-up) Or way south, into San-Bernadino...these places are over 100 miles' or more apart. You're still gonna have to use fuel to move anything from a local farm even close to city markets.

Then, there's water. LA county depends' on water from the Sierra Nevadas, HUNDREDS of miles to the north, Via the california aqueduct. Nevermind farming; It's everything Water districts can do just to give Angelino's water for their baths' and lawns. I'm not sure what the water situation is in other cities, but I do know that L.A. hurts in the summers.

As to rail...It does have one major drawback. That is time; It can take a BNSF freight train, such as the ones' my Brother-in-law runs, an entire day simply to go from someplace like Bakersfield to Barstow. I used to be able to make the same run in a FLD-120 Freightliner running right at 80,000 pounds in less than 5 hours; The same from Bakersfield to San Fransisco, If I didn't stop. It takes AMTRAK 12 hours from here to the Martinez station, and it run's at 80 m.p.h., and that's with no holdups, due to freight schedules, or anything else. Trucking has been, and more than likely, will continue to be, the way to go for freight-especially if it's something that's time sensitive, such as refrigerated loads' from places like the Imperial Valley, or whatnot.

Offline FrodeMk3

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2008, 12:20:29 AM »
normally, your replies appear much much more intelligent than this.

you don't have a clue as to how powerful electric motors can be, do you? supplied with the proper voltage, and current, an electric motor will out-anything an internal combustion engine.

What size motor? All the 100 H.P. electric motors' I've seen, weigh almost 2,000 pounds by themselves-and require voltages' and currents that would need a pile of automotive batteries as big as a house to run. Not too applicable, for a motor vehicle. The source of electricity is the major hurdle that's holding Electric motors back, that's true. I'm sure that when the gov't. finally breaks' down, and authorizes Auto manufacturers to use miniuature fission power plants in cars, then we'll finally see some truly useful electric cars...(Or some truly spectacular engine failures... :lol)

Offline SD67

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2008, 02:46:53 AM »
A 100 HP AC motor will be rather larger. However the DC motor required to drive an average sized compact car will be something in the range of 25HP or so.
This is because unlike an infernal combustion engine, a DC motor will produce maximum torque from zero RPM right up to stall. This means that you do not need to have upwards of 100HP to drive at 60MPH and above. If you had a means of keeping enough traction and some form of inertial dampening for your body, a DC motor could in fact get you to top speed almost instantly.
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Offline A8TOOL

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2008, 06:30:15 PM »
I thought this thread was about where money and credit comes from??? :uhoh