Author Topic: Debate  (Read 2049 times)

Offline crockett

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3420
Re: Debate
« Reply #105 on: September 27, 2008, 09:13:01 AM »
Actually on CNN's own fact check they pointed out that Obama did indeed say he "would talk with anyone without pre conditions"


Well I have to give the benefit of doubt that there would most likely be low level talks before that would ever happen in the real world. I mean you can say that you will meet with anyone, but the reality is you know it likely will not happen that way, so I don't see what the issue is. IMO it's more of a non issue and I didn't think McCain helped himself by making a issue of it.

To me it stressed the fact that McCain wants to continue the hard nosed diplomacy of the past, where Obama says he is open to try other options. It's very clear that the hard nose line hasn't worked well for us in the past, so what is so wrong with actually talking? One thing is very certain, no disagreement has ever been settled by not talking to the other party.

It certainly won't give them legitimacy just because we talked to them, like McCain claims. It will show that we are willing to at least listen to what they have to say, which will give us more legitimacy. It doesn't mean anything will come of it, it shows that we are willing to "try" and work out our differences.

I've never really been a fan of the closed door policy that the US has. Especially when we start with the sanctions crap, that always leads to more problems down the line. The US needs to come to the realisation that we are now in a global economy. We no longer need to try to keep peace with gun boat diplomacy. We can better keep the peace by opening up and trading with these countries and using free market diplomacy.

Think about it, look at our relationship with China, while it is the extreme case we will likely never go to war with China, both countries have far too much to lose and it would cause the failure of each of our economies. While we may not agree with some of the things China does, we now have a bit of power to push them along in the right direction because of our trade with them.

Now look at Cuba. We have pretty much zero talks with them and no power over them other than typical old school gun boat diplomacy. If we opened up talks with Cuba and started trading with them again, we would then likely cause the communist govt to fail over time. I mean think about it, Americans would flock there is droves for vacations and the Cubans would buy American products like crazy. American corporations would be free to do business there which would join our two economies at the hip. That would give us control to nudge them along in the direction we want.

In this day and age the only true diplomacy revolves around open trade between each country. Once that happens those countries will change from the inside on their own. Just look at how far China has come in the last 10 years. Granted they have a long way to go, but they are progressing and have opened up to the West unlike any other Communist regime in the world has ever done.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 09:38:52 AM by crockett »
"strafing"

Offline john9001

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9453
Re: Debate
« Reply #106 on: September 27, 2008, 09:16:07 AM »
check your sources, Kissenger said the secretary of state can meet , but not the President.

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Re: Debate
« Reply #107 on: September 27, 2008, 10:20:57 AM »
Agree with hang on how it went..  probly about 7-3  to Mccain.. 

I think the scariest part for any American especially one who believed in individual rights and the constitution was what osamabinbiden said on picking the supreme court judges.

Osambinbiden did nothing to persuade anyone that he was not a total liberal and Mccain did nothing to persuade anyone he was a conservative.

In the end.. those who watched will vote based not at all on the issues.. those undecided will see either that osamabinbiden is a clear winner as an "american idol" type or that he is simply.. a very negro looking guy.

They will vote based on how his voice sounds to them or the color of his skin.

McCain will just be a safe guy for most people. they see him as not going to nutzoid one way or the other.

lazs

Offline Stringer

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1610
Re: Debate
« Reply #108 on: September 27, 2008, 10:25:47 AM »

I don't like either one of them. I'd call it a draw. McC wins on foreign policy, Obamessiah wins on economy. Obamessiah stutters a lot but looks into the camera more, better connection with the audience. McC more forceful and direct but looks down at Lehrer too much, need to connect with the audience.

I think either one of them could have won the election tonight on the economy. All that was necessary was for a clear statement in support of the TAXPAYERS instead of Ritchie Rich on the Wall Street Bailout. There have been several plans put forward that solve this crisis from the bottom up instead of the top down. If either one had proposed a bottom up plan, it would have been game/set/match. But both are too chickenshirt to be that bold.

Agree with you Toad.

Lehrer tried to get them to answer clearly.  Their perfect chance to show leadership in the midst of a crisis, and both blew it.

Offline Druss

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 132
Re: Debate
« Reply #109 on: September 27, 2008, 10:29:39 AM »
"We can't drill our way out of energy problems..."


Yeah, the idiot and his henchmen think they can TAX their way out of energy demands. Obama and Biden, Dumb and Dumber. An idiot and his lickspittle lackey. What a joke!   :lol



Offline Charon

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3705
Re: Debate
« Reply #110 on: September 27, 2008, 10:30:36 AM »
Both showed a lack of leadership on the Economy.

Obama stonewalled on whether or not he was going to be able to bring that big old freight train of new spending into the station with the crisis. Finally admitted, well, maybe have to delay some of it... But, Pelosi and Kennedy et al will not likely allow him to be soft on "social progress" (or they would have promoted Hillery more.

McCain stonewalled on his tax cuts. No one like tax cuts. And you can argue how tax cuts improve the economy. But, Congress both Republican and Democratic will resist deep spending cuts even if McCain says he will push for them. So, what do you do? Just grow the deficit more?

Neither offered substance on the specifics of the bail out, alternatives, etc. Really disappointing.

Otherwise, an edge to McCain and an obvious indication of how marginal our presidential choices are, once again.


Charon

Offline Elfie

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6142
Re: Debate
« Reply #111 on: September 27, 2008, 11:38:50 AM »
Both showed a lack of leadership on the Economy.

Obama stonewalled on whether or not he was going to be able to bring that big old freight train of new spending into the station with the crisis. Finally admitted, well, maybe have to delay some of it... But, Pelosi and Kennedy et al will not likely allow him to be soft on "social progress" (or they would have promoted Hillery more.

McCain stonewalled on his tax cuts. No one like tax cuts. And you can argue how tax cuts improve the economy. But, Congress both Republican and Democratic will resist deep spending cuts even if McCain says he will push for them. So, what do you do? Just grow the deficit more?

Neither offered substance on the specifics of the bail out, alternatives, etc. Really disappointing.

Otherwise, an edge to McCain and an obvious indication of how marginal our presidential choices are, once again.


Charon

Yup.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Dadsguns

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1979
Re: Debate
« Reply #112 on: September 27, 2008, 12:00:31 PM »
Hate to say it, but it Obama is owning McCain, wow. Can McCain look any more uncomfortable with that fake smile? Jesus why did we have to run him this year, even though I am well aware it was his last chance, but this was too important. Very disappointed.

Are you serious, you must not have waited for the entire show to end.

Score talley,,,

McCain 1     Obama 0


"Your intelligence is measured by those around you; if you spend your days with idiots you seal your own fate."

Offline trax1

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3973
Re: Debate
« Reply #113 on: September 27, 2008, 12:55:16 PM »
check your sources, Kissenger said the secretary of state can meet , but not the President.
And if you watched the debate Obama was saying that Kissinger said he agree to lower level meetings without pre-conditions, he made that clear several times, but McCain for some reason wasn't hearing him.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Offline Elfie

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6142
Re: Debate
« Reply #114 on: September 27, 2008, 12:58:13 PM »
Did anyone catch the first thing Barack said to Michelle after he left the podium at the end? As I recall another midwest senator was noted for saying the same thing.

What did he say?
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Carrel

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 310
Re: Debate
« Reply #115 on: September 27, 2008, 01:02:01 PM »
I think the people who back McCain are convinced he did better than Obama, and the people who back Obama think he did better than McCain. I'd be intrested to see what the undecided voters thought.

Offline trax1

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3973
Re: Debate
« Reply #116 on: September 27, 2008, 01:15:47 PM »
I think the people who back McCain are convinced he did better than Obama, and the people who back Obama think he did better than McCain. I'd be intrested to see what the undecided voters thought.
I'm a Obama supporter and I think McCain won the debate, but this debate was on his strongest subject which is foreign policy, although I think Obama did better on the economy subject, and Obama looked better, not losing his cool like McCain.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Offline Kaw1000

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1159
Re: Debate
« Reply #117 on: September 27, 2008, 01:15:56 PM »
I think the people who back McCain are convinced he did better than Obama, and the people who back Obama think he did better than McCain. I'd be intrested to see what the undecided voters thought.

{{{{DRUDGE POLL}}}} WHO WON THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE?...

 MCCAIN
 
 68% 236,251
 OBAMA
 
 30% 103,745
 NEITHER
 
 2% 8,543

Total Votes: 348,539
See Rule# 5 on just about every thread!

Offline Holden McGroin

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8591
Re: Debate
« Reply #118 on: September 28, 2008, 12:23:33 AM »
Quote
New Debate Rules Allow For One 15-Second Strangulation
September 25, 2008 | Issue 44•39
 
OXFORD, MS—Amid discussions of possibly postponing the debate altogether, Sens. Barack Obama (D-IL) and John McCain (R-AZ) were able to agree Thursday on a new guideline that would allow each candidate one 15-second strangulation during Friday night's presidential debate. "Both candidates will receive two minutes to answer each question, five minutes for discussion, and a one-time-only option to walk over to their opponent's podium and cut off his oxygen supply for up to 15 seconds," a statement from the Commission on Presidential Debates read in part, also specifying that debate moderator Jim Lehrer can exercise his own discretion in determining whether or not the strangulations go over time. "After being choked, the candidate, if still standing, may counter with one of his two allotted empty beer bottles to the head." Because many have agreed the new rule will benefit McCain, the commission has also allotted Obama an optional double-thumbed eye gouge. -onion
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline Elfie

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6142
Re: Debate
« Reply #119 on: September 28, 2008, 12:28:29 AM »
^^^


 :rofl   :rofl   :rofl   :rofl

Funny funny stuff Holden!  :rock
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.