HiTech no likes ponys?

[palef]

Now I'm not a Steve, nor a Bob, a Herb, a Pete, or any other diminutive noun.

But.

I used to loathe the P51. It dented my pride and stats horribly, because I'd try to TnB in it. Once I relaxed the stick pressure a LOT it all became clear. Now I feel guilty flying it. It is by far the easiest of the non-perk planes to rack up kills in, if you can avoid the call of the TnB.

[bustr]

Tiffs and temps out turn the 51

Just got back from Gonzo's site and as expected almost everything out turns the P51D. That's why I only turn in it when I have the advantage, or goofed up on the deck and am impersonating a gerbil wiggling in the bushes.

It could be a mistake on Dok's comparison site, but if it's not, under 20k the spit16 and spit 14 are closer in performance than the P51D and 109K4. I've read the threads concerning the 16 vs. 14 perk or not perk question. Why with those planes do players keep it to the known values while with the P51D it turns into my daddies Muskcle car had a godzilla 12 humpper in it and could strip tarmak while going 0-69 in 2 seconds?

Wouldn't it be easier if you aspire to become the P51 godzilla of Aces High to just ask Steve to give you lessons on how to fly it in this computer environment?

[Max]

SkatrSr is a pretty handy Pony - D stick as well

[Steve]

Now I'm not a Steve, nor a Bob, a Herb, a Pete, or any other diminutive noun.

But.

I used to loathe the P51. It dented my pride and stats horribly, because I'd try to TnB in it. Once I relaxed the stick pressure a LOT it all became clear. Now I feel guilty flying it. It is by far the easiest of the non-perk planes to rack up kills in, if you can avoid the call of the TnB.

diminuative     

I enjoy the occasional TnB in a pony... of course it gets me dead quite a bit when I do. Something about a low and slow pony... seems to attract more than its share of attention. It could be just my imagination though.

SkatrSr is a pretty handy Pony - D stick as well

  yup he sure is. and one of my favorite pony wingies.

[BnZ]

Changed my mind. Since I was challenged to get technical, I shall get technical. This is nothing that Widewing before me has not done, but since people are apparently under the impression I am simply deluded by History Channel propaganda as regards the P-51 Mustang, I suppose I must rehash.

DokGonzo's test website shows that in-game, our lightest Jug, the P-47D-11 can sustain a tighter radius than the P-51D both with no flaps and with full flaps. This is not in concurrence with the experiences of test and combat pilots during the war. Let us take a closer look at both airplanes.

In AHII, a six-gun P-51D carrying 50% fuel weighs 9,365 lbs. A P-47D-11 with the lighter 8-gun package carrying 50% fuel weighs 12,676 lbs. (Note: The P-51 of course can carry a larger fraction of its gross weight in the form of fuel, the P-51D will fly slightly longer on Mil with 50% fuel than the P-47D-11 will with 75% fuel.)

The P-51D has a wing area of 235 square feet. The P-47D has a wing area of 300 square feet.

9,365/235=~39.9

12,676/300=~42.7

So the P-51D is clearly superior in wing-loading.

What about power-loading?

Assuming the figures for WEP horsepower in AHII agree with the ones I was able to find for WEP horsepower of the P-51D and early P-47Ds, we get this result..

9,365 lbs/1,720hp=5.44 lbs/hp

12,676 lbs/2,300hp=5.51 lbs/hp.

So the P-51D is also slightly superior in power-loading.

In AHII the P-51 is out-turned by an aircraft that is decidedly inferior in wing-loading and also inferior in horsepower, in both no-flaps and full-flaps configuration.

My gripe has nothing to do with whether or not the Pony should be out-turning 109s, Zekes, or winning the war single-handed.

[Steve]

In AHII the P-51 is out-turned by an aircraft that is decidedly inferior in wing-loading and also inferior in horsepower, in both no-flaps and full-flaps configuration.

My gripe has nothing to do with whether or not the Pony should be out-turning 109s, Zekes, or winning the war single-handed.

This is the sort of data I asked Dale for but was ignored.

[dentin]

I spent an hour putting a TF-51D, converted from a 1944 vintage P-51D, call sign 'Crazy Horse' thru an aerobatic session,
..including accelerated stalls, power on straight ahead stalls, right turn hard pull till she stalled,
..and the dreaded left turn hard pull until she snapped, 10 degree flap down max turn rate turns,
..it's on video if you want to watch it.

Where might one view this video??

[Babalonian]

.....

Assuming the figures for WEP horsepower in AHII agree with the ones I was able to find for WEP horsepower of the P-51D and early P-47Ds, we get this result..

9,365 lbs/1,720hp=5.44 lbs/hp

12,676 lbs/2,300hp=5.51 lbs/hp.

So the P-51D is also slightly superior in power-loading.

In AHII the P-51 is out-turned by an aircraft that is decidedly inferior in wing-loading and also inferior in horsepower, in both no-flaps and full-flaps configuration.

My gripe has nothing to do with whether or not the Pony should be out-turning 109s, Zekes, or winning the war single-handed.

Thanks for the numbers, (if legit) they do add some food-for-thought to this conversation.

[Anaxogoras]

Maybe the P47 turns too well and the Pony is fine.

[Dream Child]

We have very very good data on the P51, And our performance matches this data.
As always, if you think there is an error in our performance, please post specifics, because post like, "I think the p51 should turn better" is completely useless.


HiTech

OK, I'll bite. Most obvious physics problem that I've seen in game is the (name your favorite single engine fighter plane here) getting both wings shot off. In real life, it would spin like a top (perhaps the term "drill" would be appropriate) from the engine torque at that point. I probably wouldn't want to be in that plane trying to bail out, either.

[Widewing]

No time in P-51s.. 24.25 hours in TA-4Js though accumulated over the course of 15 months... However, I never got close to exploring the Scooter's capabilities. I was only beginning to get a basic feel for it under the watchful eye of the various pilots in the front seat.

How does an Navy AD2 (Petty Officer, 2nd Class) manage to get flight time in a Skyhawk? Easy, I traded flight time for crew seats on my C-118 or C-131 flying stateside. I ran shopping errands for pilots while up in Jax and Miami. I even flew back brand new motorcycles. We would post our flight dates for VC-10, listing the number of seats we had allocated for crew. VC-10 pilots and enlisted personnel would fly as crew, their names added to the yellow sheet. We would collect shopping lists and even flew in a dozen pizzas for a VC-10 party. In exchange, backseat flight time was made available for ejection seat qualified aircrew. Everyone benefited and the command actually encouraged this as it was a boost for morale.

Of course, I know guys with thousands of hours in P-51s, P-38s, P-47s, F6Fs, etc. Plus I have seen enough test data to cause brain damage.


My regards,

Widewing

[blutic]

All of this doesn't matter.
Pick a plane, pick a red guy.
Shoot, and hope you him.

[Chalenge]

All of this doesn't matter.
Pick a plane, pick a red guy.
Shoot, and hope you him.

Well said! 

[Guppy35]

Tiffs and temps out turn the 51

What speed, what alt etc?

I've run into some guys who really work the 51D on the deck.  I had a TnB fight with a guy named Magoo1 last week and he was really working it against my 38G.  OlDemon always seems to turn the 51 well low and slow.

When I've winged with Fencer in a 51, there is a zone of speed where I felt very comfortable turning with a 16.  Would I want to get full flaps slow?  Not a chance.  The 51 shouldn't out turn a Spit.  But with a notch of combat flaps and working it, the 51 did just fine.

Granted I don't fly it all that much, but it sure seems to fly like I see it described by the guys who flew it in combat.

It was never meant to be a Spitfire.  It's range and all the things it could do well made it what it was. 

[glock89]

All of this doesn't matter.
Pick a plane, pick a red guy.
Shoot, and hope you him.