Your thoughts

[ink]

I have actually toyed with a similar idea, sort of a way to model attrition.

Give most planes a small perk price, 5 for like an La/Spit, 3 for  Pony/K4/Dora/F4U/P-47N, 1 for a P-47D-40 or 109G14. These are just examples, the specific numbers would be up for debate. Of course I would give new players 1,000 perks to start with and every player would get a stipend of say 100-300 perks at the start of every tour.

i think this is a great idea

[E25280]

but anyone who even entertains the notion that the thing should be perked is a whining idiot?

Pretty much, yes.   

It's usage does not dominate the rest of the plane set.

It's performance does not dominate the rest of the plane set.

It's kill ratio is just barely above 1 to 1 (1.05 to 1 in September, ranked 24th of fighters).

It has serious limitations when it comes to certain aspects of the game.


And finally -- SOMETHING has to be the "best" non-perked ride (however that's determined), so why not the Spixteen?

That said, as someone else has said, unperk the 14 and perk the 16 a slight amount.

This is hilarious.  The Spit XIV outperforms the XVI in every way except turn radius -- but it should be unperked and the Spixteen perked?  I think this goes to show it is a perception problem, not a problem with the plane.

[Patches1]

Just a suggestion: unleash the Dogs of War against the SpitXVI!

Unperk the F4U-1C and the F4U-4!

 

[Wyld45]

                   Just remember, anything you fly, "Rock-Paper-Scissors".

[uberslet]

This is hilarious.  The Spit XIV outperforms the XVI in every way except turn radius -- but it should be unperked and the Spixteen perked?  I think this goes to show it is a perception problem, not a problem with the plane.

look at the performance of the 14, not nearly as good, and doesnt out perform the 16 in many, if any, ways until 20K+;are you willing to climb to 20K for a fight thats at 5K so you can say "look at me, im the 20k spit 14, i own you all" if i wanted to bring a spit a fight, id bring a spit 16 at the alt of the fight, maybe a little lower so that im not so uber, and would have to try and fly the plane; as Yenny said, when we flies a spit 16 it feels like hes in a uber ride;and i feel the same way. in an F4U4 or 262 I dont feel that way, i feel im in just another ride that will cost me if i lose it, not in a spit 16.

[uberslet]

Just a suggestion: unleash the Dogs of War against the SpitXVI!

Unperk the F4U-1C and the F4U-4!

 

coming from a proud vmf member 

[uberslet]

If this helps put into perspective of how much the spit 16 is used the Bishops, i dont go head hunting for spits, i take what i can get in my F4U, and i know im gonna have a rough time if i start TnB with a spit, look at these stats right quick:

                   Killed by   Died In
Spitfire Mk XVI   9      1
         

                   Kills In  Kills Of
Spitfire Mk XVI   0   13


That little bt of information was taken right from the Kill Stats in Expanded Format (I.E Only)

[E25280]

look at the performance of the 14, not nearly as good, and doesnt out perform the 16 in many, if any, ways until 20K+;

http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php

Spit 14 is faster than the 16 at all altitudes.
Spit 14 outclimbs the 16 at all but a narrow band of altitudes (17K to 22K at Mil, 12K to 20K at WEP).
Spit 14 accelerates more quickly than the 16.

So, no, you don't have to be above 20K for it to show advantages over the XVI.

[uberslet]

http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php

Spit 14 is faster than the 16 at all altitudes.
Spit 14 outclimbs the 16 at all but a narrow band of altitudes (17K to 22K at Mil, 12K to 20K at WEP).
Spit 14 accelerates more quickly than the 16.

So, no, you don't have to be above 20K for it to show advantages over the XVI.

may i ask you a question. the spit 14 is perked for a reason, however, it gets very little fly time each tour. Perk the 16, for just 1 tour, and see how much the percentage use drops, itd still be like 4 or 5 % of sorties is my wager. why is it the spit 14 is never used for the most part, but the spit 16 is so good? tell me that, seem to be in the know on the Spitfire models.

[Kev367th]

may i ask you a question. the spit 14 is perked for a reason, however, it gets very little fly time each tour. Perk the 16, for just 1 tour, and see how much the percentage use drops, itd still be like 4 or 5 % of sorties is my wager. why is it the spit 14 is never used for the most part, but the spit 16 is so good? tell me that, seem to be in the know on the Spitfire models.

Ok we are getting into the higher Mk number = later better Spit, which in this case is wrong.

LF IX 1943 - Merlin 66 (1,720hp) .303s
LF IXe 1944 - Merlin 66 (1,720hp) .50 cals
XVI - 1944 - Merlin 266 (US built Merlin 66 @ 1,720hp) .50 cals

Performance wise are all but indentical, so our XVI is basically a clipped 1943 LF IX with 50 cals.

Bit like the VIII came AFTER the IX.

XIV - 1944 - Griffon 65 (2,220hp)

reason the XIV doesn't get much use - not worth the perk price, for the low alt MA better off with a XVI or La7.

Would guess if we ever got an F.21 the XIV would be unperked.

introduction to service in order -
IX
VIII
LF IX
LF IXe
XIV
XVI (only called a XVI to show it had a US built Merlin, else is identical to LF IXe)

[SectorNine50]

My only real issue with the 16 is really that it is pretty good at... well... everything...

It's one of those aircraft that when it gets behind you, you really have no idea what to do.  Should I dive?  No, not unless we are way up in the sky, it can dive pretty well for a period of time, but then I'll be low on E and he'll just climb back up... waiting for me...  Should I climb?  No, it can out-climb me off WEP, and catch me when on it.  Should I turn?  No, it turns tighter and rolls faster.  Should I chop my throttle and force overshoot?  No, it slows down very fast, not to mention accelerates quickly as well.  Plus with those cannons if I give them even a split second of a gun solution, a wing comes of.  I could try to just out run it!  Ah, wait, no... those Hispanos will get me before I even have a chance to get out of his speed range.

Ah screw it, I'm gonna bail.

In all seriousness, it is truly a challenging aircraft to encounter.  It always steams me a bit when I see a "vet" pilot in it since it seems so... challenge-less...  I've even had moments where I'm cruising 3k-5k above a Spit 16 at 300mph watching him to see what his next move is, just to stare at amazement as he pulls straight up, comes co-alt with me, and accelerates to 300mph all in enough time to gain a gun solution on me with those vicious hispanos.

I just can't help but feel that a plane that really has no real disadvantage shouldn't be perked and that it isn't unbalancing in some way.  However, I do feel that it's a good idea to have aircraft for beginners like this one.  Either way, I really don't think just looking at kill/death ratios or usage percentages is going to give us an answer.

My $0.02.

[SectorNine50]

Ok we are getting into the higher Mk number = later better Spit, which in this case is wrong.

LF IX 1943 - Merlin 66 (1,720hp) .303s
LF IXe 1944 - Merlin 66 (1,720hp) .50 cals
XVI - 1944 - Merlin 266 (US built Merlin 66 @ 1,720hp) .50 cals

Performance wise are all but indentical, so our XVI is basically a clipped 1943 LF IX with 50 cals.

Bit like the VIII came AFTER the IX.

XIV - 1944 - Griffon 65 (2,220hp)

reason the XIV doesn't get much use - not worth the perk price, for the low alt MA better off with a XVI or La7.

Would guess if we ever got an F.21 the XIV would be unperked.

introduction to service in order -
IX
VIII
LF IX
LF IXe
XIV
XVI (only called a XVI to show it had a US built Merlin, else is identical to LF IXe)

Why does the 16 climb so much better?

[Anaxogoras]

If the 16 were perked, the 8 would take its place as a very capable beginner aircraft.

The 14 should be unperked because it is tricky to fly.  It is not a point and shoot aircraft like the 16.  If the 14 were unperked, and you gave people a month to try it out, at the end of the month you'd see more 16s than 14s.

[Masherbrum]

Will do boss!


Heh, now here we go...with the N1K, you are starting to get into a ride that turns better than most and hits harder than most. But it is also slower than most LW birds, can't take a very high speed dive, doesn't roll well, and is a fairly ordinary climber except very low. If X late-war bird can't match it in one area, it quite probably best it another. That is my idea of "balance" in the plane-set.

It is not about popularity or what people like to fly. By that false standard the P-51D is the very best non-perk bird and the Ki-84 is among the worst.

That is why I fly the Ki-61, it is superior to the rides so far mentioned in this thread.   Nikis?   

[BnZ]

And finally -- SOMETHING has to be the "best" non-perked ride (however that's determined), so why not the Spixteen?

Actually, there doesn't have to be a "best". Most of the time when you compare two aircraft, you can say A aircraft does this really well but B aircraft does this better. When you have a fighter that is ahead of most of the plane set in almost every quality important to a fighter...consider perking it.

K/D doesn't tell you much when a given ride is the go-to choice both for new pilots and for desperate base defense against long odds. I tell you what, as an experiment, lightly perk the Spixteen so that it is flown by experienced pilots a little more carefully, and watch k/d numbers go through the roof.