Your thoughts

[BnZ]

Climbing from cruise speed is not a zoom climb.  Climbing out of full dive speed is a zoom climb.  The planes I mentioned do that much better than a Spit.

Who the h*ll ever heard of the "Cruise and Zoom" manouver?

1. So a Dora/Jug/Hog can out-zoom/rope a Spit if it has more speed to begin with. Big deal, I thought we were discussing the advantages of different planes, not the advantage of having alt/E on a bandit.

2. The following film shows a Spit16 and a P-47N executing a high-speed dive to approximately 100 feet and over 400 mph. The speed is allowed to bleed down to 400 before an approximately 3g pull-up is executed until the plane is zooming directly vertical. Shift-X is used to hold the plane until it runs out of airspeed and stalls. Note that he Spit16 zooms almost as high as the Jug, even though I "cheat" in the jug's favor a little bit. (Watching the film, I leveled out for my run a little higher and pulled up before the speed had quite bled down to 400). The BEST that can be claimed IMHO is that the Jugs mass/drag ratio advantage brings it even with the Spit16s vertical performance at very high speed.

http://www.mediafire.com/?jdnywtkjyut

[BaldEagl]

Baldeagl, neither did we say it had to be from cruise speed.

Really?

Hmmm...so you are saying that if a Dora/Jug/non-perk Hog is percolating a long at say, 350, with a Spit16 1000 back, also going say, 350, and the Dora/Jug/Hog goes vertical, the Spit will stall out before it comes into firing range, the Dora/Jug/Hog will zoom well enough to leave the Spit stalling behind and still have control enough to flip over and get it's easy kill in a reasonable amount of time before the Spit16 recovers? Starting from a co-alt co-e position like this?

[Noir]

unperk the 14, or give it a larger DT

[Gixer]

An amusing thread. 


<S>...-Gixer

[uberslet]

An amusing thread. 


<S>...-Gixer

im sorry  i just wanted to know people views and here i am with ya Gixer, eatung my popcorn, and watching.

[SectorNine50]

Sector, i  agree with that hole post, however this last paragraph got me thinking. you mentioned how its good to have a plane like this for beginners, and i strongly agree, however there is no "good fix" for this because if you try to implement a perk value on a spit 16 for someone with a rank lower than say, 1000, people, no matter how good, would try to have a crappy rank just to fly it for free, unless of course they have like 3000 perks and can somehow out dive 262's in it.  sir.

I was actually thinking about this exact thing the other day.  I came to the conclusion that no one is going to up an aircraft and try to not get kills or get killed, so I have to assume the fighter rank will naturally pan out.

Sure would make the beginning of the tour interesting though since no one is ranked.  You'd probably see a little spur of 16's, then it would go back to normal again after everyone got their rank... What to do, what to do...

[uberslet]

What to do, what to do...

you cant really do much, if anything 

[BnZ]

Bald: The point remains that you were trying to claim that the fact a fighter can dive on a Spit16 at high speed and then zoom up beyond reach as an advantage X airframes have over the Spit16, when in fact all you were pointing out was the advantage of starting with an advantage.

[Rich46yo]

then youd be perking  the nikki, which uness flown well, is pretty much average with other fighters. an F4U will out turn it, it can dive with an F4U, and is just about as fast as an F4U. about the only difference that makes it lethal to an F4U is its 4 cannons, opposed to (except for the C-Hog) 6 .50 caliber MG's. Also, you start perking ALL ENY 5 fighters, and you would sure as hell see the pony as the new ENY 5 cuz itd be just about the easiest to fly if flown well (though many non-5 eny fighters are like that), also, youd have to most likely drop the ENY of other fighters so that people can have their 5 eny planes and still be happy. 

Well it was just a thought. Ill say this, I took a Spit-16 up against that Bish B-17 mob last night and for many long minutes survived in a sky red with Ponies even with an alt disadvantage. No I didn't survive it, eventually I got squeezed and HO'ed by one of the horde. But for a long, long time I was able to outdance an entire sky red with cons. And I'm only medium skilled, and still I can figure out the 16 is uber.

I dont fly it much, or the LA, and almost never the Niki, but I'm always flying into gangs of them. Its true not all are "good" in them. Most "good" sticks gravitate to other planes and only fly the 5 enys occasionally. And there aint much quality 1 on 1'ing in the MAs anyways. Its mostly gangbanging, getting banged, HO'ing on 1 merge, vulching/scoe hoe'ing, alt monkeying....ect Maybe lightly perking 5 eny aircraft would change that.

I know I didn't start learning how to fight until I got out of that LA-7 and into some higher eny fighters where I actually had to start using tactics to survive. Just a suggestion. 

[Anaxogoras]

Really?

Cruise speed is a lot slower than 350mph ias.

In fact, I just tested the F4U-1D vs the Spit16 in zoom climbs offline.  I dove both down to 100' asl, when they decelerated to 400mph ias, I engaged auto-climb on speed set to 100mph (both aircraft had WEP engaged, 50% fuel).  Once the aircraft reached maximum pitch (near vertical), I engaged auto-climb on angle.  The idea here is that since the autopilot is controlling the aircraft, its inputs will be exactly the same.

The Spit16 zoomed to 6,500ft.
The F4U-1D zoomed to 6,000ft.

So, even at speeds that can only be reached as the result of a dive, the Spit16 out zoom-climbs the F4U-1D.

[BnZ]

 And there aint much quality 1 on 1'ing in the MAs anyways. Its mostly gangbanging, getting banged, HO'ing on 1 merge, vulching/scoe hoe'ing, alt monkeying....ect Maybe lightly perking 5 eny aircraft would change that.

It won't change MA behavior even a little bit!  People will behave as they always have.

 I don't believe the eny 5 N1K deserves to be perked and a I certainly don't think the eny 5 47N needs a perk price.

[E25280]

I don't believe the eny 5 N1K deserves to be perked and a I certainly don't think the eny 5 47N needs a perk price.

Playing devil's advocate here for a second . . .

Of all the ENY 5 unperked planes that might "need" a perk, it would be the N1K first, based on K/D ratio.  It was 1.25 in September, vs. 1.07 for the Pony (granted, its ENY is 8, though not entirely sure why), 1.05 for the Spixteen, 0.99 for the LA-7 and 0.8 for the 47N.

Again (broken record), I don't think ANY of those planes need a perk.

[BnZ]

Playing devil's advocate here for a second . . .

Of all the ENY 5 unperked planes that might "need" a perk, it would be the N1K first, based on K/D ratio.  It was 1.25 in September, vs. 1.07 for the Pony (granted, its ENY is 8, though not entirely sure why), 1.05 for the Spixteen, 0.99 for the LA-7 and 0.8 for the 47N.

Again (broken record), I don't think ANY of those planes need a perk.

It has deadly firepower. If it gets you in its guns or you are dumb enough to HO it....

Also, it is the premier vulching plane.

But as compared to the Spit16, it is easier to stay out of its gun-sight in the first place. I mean, at 325 mph top deck speed, most LW planes can simply disengage from it if nothing else.

[Anaxogoras]

Along the same lines...

P-47D-25 zoomed to 5,900ft.
P-38L zoomed to 6,250ft.

So the Spit16 outzooms the F4U-1D, P-47D-25, and P-38L.

[Ack-Ack]

Pretty much, yes.   

It's usage does not dominate the rest of the plane set.

It's performance does not dominate the rest of the plane set.

It's kill ratio is just barely above 1 to 1 (1.05 to 1 in September, ranked 24th of fighters).

It has serious limitations when it comes to certain aspects of the game.


And finally -- SOMETHING has to be the "best" non-perked ride (however that's determined), so why not the Spixteen?

This is hilarious.  The Spit XIV outperforms the XVI in every way except turn radius -- but it should be unperked and the Spixteen perked?  I think this goes to show it is a perception problem, not a problem with the plane.

I agree with this and Dan's posts, too bad it's lost on all the "perk plane XXX" crowd.  I guess people will always seek the path of less resistance...


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