Automobile magazine says of the new Camaro...

[DiabloTX]

Well, look at the power to weight.   The Cobra makes ~365-380 RWHP stock - that's around 430 BHP - and it weighs 3665 lbs.  It's capable of mid-high 12's @ 113 MPH stock.  I'm pretty sure that the SS will not be as fast.  I'd say the SS will run very low 13's, or very high 12's @ ~109.  We'll see!

Look up Whiteman here, he and I know each other.  He has a pretty much stock '01 Camaro Z28 auto.  He can turn high 12's with his car and that's what, only 310 hp?  Most of the LS1 F-fody's around here are consistent low-13's stock, 12's slightly moded, and well into the low 12's high 11's with the some mods.  Only took Ford 3 more camshafts and a blower.  Put a blower on the 420hp SS and let's see what happens.  SVT you can claim to be stock, and I'll more or less agree with you, but we all know it's an after-market tuning company for Ford, much like SLP.

[CAP1]

Look up Whiteman here, he and I know each other.  He has a pretty much stock '01 Camaro Z28 auto.  He can turn high 12's with his car and that's what, only 310 hp?  Most of the LS1 F-fody's around here are consistent low-13's stock, 12's slightly moded, and well into the low 12's high 11's with the some mods.  Only took Ford 3 more camshafts and a blower.  Put a blower on the 420hp SS and let's see what happens.  SVT you can claim to be stock, and I'll more or less agree with you, but we all know it's an after-market tuning company for Ford, much like SLP.

the ls1's are 350's right?

my understanding was that the late 90's to the end of production, the camaros ran hi 12's?  i though i remembered reading or hearing this somewhere, as it surprised me that ford went and slowed their cars down, while chevy finally went faster?

 also, i'm wondering if the manufacturers are playing the horsepower game they used to play....by under-rating them in some cases for insurance?

[Bronk]

the ls1's are 350's right?

my understanding was that the late 90's to the end of production, the camaros ran hi 12's?  i though i remembered reading or hearing this somewhere, as it surprised me that ford went and slowed their cars down, while chevy finally went faster?

 also, i'm wondering if the manufacturers are playing the horsepower game they used to play....by under-rating them in some cases for insurance?

ermm displacement anyone?

[CAP1]

ermm displacement anyone?

350=5.7L

[Bronk]

350=5.7L

I was addressing why the fords got slower and the cheveys got faster.

[CAP1]

I was addressing why the fords got slower and the cheveys got faster.

DOH!!!

sorry bout that

[clerick]

I was addressing why the fords got slower and the cheveys got faster.

With SVT Ford's focus shifted to a complete car as opposed to a straight line performance car.  One of the hallmarks of the cobras (until recently) were their ability to turn a corner and still provide good grunt to boot. GM focused more on 0-60 and 1/4 time performance.

[Bronk]

With SVT Ford's focus shifted to a complete car as opposed to a straight line performance car.  One of the hallmarks of the cobras (until recently) were their ability to turn a corner and still provide good grunt to boot. GM focused more on 0-60 and 1/4 time performance.

<--- owner of an svt focus.  Know all about SVTs.

[clerick]

<--- owner of an svt focus.  Know all about SVTs.

I drove an SVT Focus from Minneapolis to Chicago to do a Richard Petty Experience... I went faster on the interstate then they would let us go on the track.  It was a great car that could have been made much better with about 20 more horsepower. But, as good as the focus was, the SVT Contour was much better.

[Bronk]

I drove an SVT Focus from Minneapolis to Chicago to do a Richard Petty Experience... I went faster on the interstate then they would let us go on the track.  It was a great car that could have been made much better with about 20 more horsepower. But, as good as the focus was, the SVT Contour was much better.

With 20 more hp the contour wouldn't stand a chance.

[Cobra516]

Look up Whiteman here, he and I know each other.  He has a pretty much stock '01 Camaro Z28 auto.  He can turn high 12's with his car and that's what, only 310 hp?  Most of the LS1 F-fody's around here are consistent low-13's stock, 12's slightly moded, and well into the low 12's high 11's with the some mods.  Only took Ford 3 more camshafts and a blower.  Put a blower on the 420hp SS and let's see what happens.  SVT you can claim to be stock, and I'll more or less agree with you, but we all know it's an after-market tuning company for Ford, much like SLP.

The '01 Camaro weighs ~3300 lbs, not 3860 - and I know they can run  that ET with some good tires, but the trap speed isn't there.  A stock '03 Cobra pulls pretty hard on a stock '01 Z28 - as the Z28 only traps ~106ish - compared to ~110-113 for the Cobra.

A stock '03 Cobra is just that, a stock car from Ford.  It isn't some tuning company, it's a special vehicle team that makes Ford's flagship performance cars, it isn't like SLP, where GM takes a Camaro and has SLP install the mods.  

Given that the internals aren't forged on the SS, the safe limit is probably somewhere in the high 400 to low 500 RWHP range - I'll still be faster with my 516 RWHP Cobra - could throw on a Kenne Bell and make ~600 RWHP reliably without ever taking the heads off.  So what if Ford only has the 4.6L?  Power is power - it just happens that they gave us a forged engine and a blower from the factory.

Chevy has always been ahead of Ford in the engine size department, and the speed department until the '03/'04 Cobra (except for the Z06's).  The only replacement for displacement is forced induction, but as you know the bigger engine is always going to make more power for a given amount of boost - it just happens that the Cobra was given the right stuff at the factory to make up for it's lack of displacement.

Would be cool to see this SS with a forged engine and forced induction from the factory - would certainly make up for it's weight problem.

[DiabloTX]

The '01 Camaro weighs ~3300 lbs, not 3860 - and I know they can run  that ET with some good tires, but the trap speed isn't there.  A stock '03 Cobra pulls pretty hard on a stock '01 Z28 - as the Z28 only traps ~106ish - compared to ~110-113 for the Cobra.

A stock '03 Cobra is just that, a stock car from Ford.  It isn't some tuning company, it's a special vehicle team that makes Ford's flagship performance cars, it isn't like SLP, where GM takes a Camaro and has SLP install the mods.  

Given that the internals aren't forged on the SS, the safe limit is probably somewhere in the high 400 to low 500 RWHP range - I'll still be faster with my 516 RWHP Cobra - could throw on a Kenne Bell and make ~600 RWHP reliably without ever taking the heads off.  So what if Ford only has the 4.6L?  Power is power - it just happens that they gave us a forged engine and a blower from the factory.

Chevy has always been ahead of Ford in the engine size department, and the speed department until the '03/'04 Cobra (except for the Z06's).  The only replacement for displacement is forced induction, but as you know the bigger engine is always going to make more power for a given amount of boost - it just happens that the Cobra was given the right stuff at the factory to make up for it's lack of displacement.

Would be cool to see this SS with a forged engine and forced induction from the factory - would certainly make up for it's weight problem.

You can use semantics all you want the fact is the Cobra is a special vehicle far beyond what would be considered "stock".  Just because SLP is a completely separate entity from GM doesn't mean SVT does the exact same thing for Ford.  We all know the 4.6's are hand build for the Cobra's.  To compare that to the standard production techniques of the LS1's is dumb.  2 completely different classes of V8's, UNLESS you want to compare it to the 638hp LS9.  And if you want to, go ahead.

Trap speed, as you well know, is an idicator of HP.  But it isn't all that determines trap time.  Good tires or not (his was stock street tires nothing special) you can get an LS1 up and beyond what a Cobra can do without having to rely on 4 cams, forged internals and forced induction which is what Ford was forced to do when it came out with the modular 4.6.  Now, lets compare the 2 engines, forged internals, 4 OHC vs 1 pushrod cam, forced induction vs. normally aspirated.  Get the LS1 up to those specs minus the OHC's and the 4.6 is toast, plain and simple. 

[clerick]

You can use semantics all you want the fact is the Cobra is a special vehicle far beyond what would be considered "stock".  Just because SLP is a completely separate entity from GM doesn't mean SVT does the exact same thing for Ford.  We all know the 4.6's are hand build for the Cobra's.  To compare that to the standard production techniques of the LS1's is dumb.  2 completely different classes of V8's, UNLESS you want to compare it to the 638hp LS9.  And if you want to, go ahead.

Trap speed, as you well know, is an idicator of HP.  But it isn't all that determines trap time.  Good tires or not (his was stock street tires nothing special) you can get an LS1 up and beyond what a Cobra can do without having to rely on 4 cams, forged internals and forced induction which is what Ford was forced to do when it came out with the modular 4.6.  Now, lets compare the 2 engines, forged internals, 4 OHC vs 1 pushrod cam, forced induction vs. normally aspirated.  Get the LS1 up to those specs minus the OHC's and the 4.6 is toast, plain and simple. 

Don't forget that the 5.4 has pretty much replaced the 4.6 as the hot pony motor and even that will probably be gone in 2010 in favor of the new 5.0 that will be produced at the Windsor plant or the 6.2 from the Romeo plant. 

Why Ford never capitalized on the potential of the 4.6 is beyond me. It was pumping out over 300hp in the Mk VIII in the mid 90's.

[Cobra516]

Trap speed, as you well know, is an idicator of HP.  But it isn't all that determines trap time.  Good tires or not (his was stock street tires nothing special) you can get an LS1 up and beyond what a Cobra can do without having to rely on 4 cams, forged internals and forced induction which is what Ford was forced to do when it came out with the modular 4.6.  Now, lets compare the 2 engines, forged internals, 4 OHC vs 1 pushrod cam, forced induction vs. normally aspirated.  Get the LS1 up to those specs minus the OHC's and the 4.6 is toast, plain and simple. 

Well it's just easier to make a Cobra fast than a Camaro/Vette. 

Doesn't matter how the power is made, RWHP is RWHP (well N/A is the best power, but I have yet to see an advantage on the street, mine is practically instant boost at any RPM with the Eaton).  But the bigger engine is certainly the way to go, just sucks you have to build it if you want any decent amount of boost.

You gotta give props to the Cobra though.  The 5.4L would be awesome if the GT500 didn't weigh 3920 lbs.  A 600 RWHP Cobra is about even with a ~680 RWHP GT500 from my experience, that's terrible - and a ~500 RWHP C6 Z06 is right there with them    I love the Z's.  I wish Ford would make some big power / displacement N/A engines.

[Grayeagle]

Much as I dislike  Fords  .. if they put the new stang on a serious diet so the motor could pull it, they'd rock.

I couldnt beleive when I first heard that the new stang weighed so much .. it's not a big car, must be that Ford engineering.

As for the ease of makin the LS-1 faster . .er .. bolt on a procharger.
Instant 600hp.. or so .. depending on how fast you want to turn the pully.

Or a lotta people just do heads/cam ..500hp.

Then there's the guys that do twin turbo ..1000hp or more for the killer setups.
It's easy to do .. all it takes is money

Or .. you can buy the new LS based 454 motor ..bolt in 600hp.. usin a single 4-barrel no less.
Then bolt on the procharger.. or twin turbo *that* beast.

I know I know .. you can get an aluminum SOHC motor for the Ford ..but at that stage, wouldn't we all rather just get a Keith Black Blown Hemi motor and have at it? -evil grin-

-GE aka Frank