After 9 years...

[mechanic]

i agree with BnZ, bugging out does not equate playing for score. You sometimes just dont want to die yet or dont think the gang deserves the pick yet or whatever. The game is fine, people will always go about things in a competetive and individual manner, how much more realism could you get than 1000+ different virtual fighter pilots to choose from? Snaps score idea would still work better if tested and refined.

[shreck]

I mean, does anyone ever consider the fact that the guy bugging out is NOT interested in score? Perhaps he just doesn't want to give the other bastard the satisfaction. 

Very observent!

[BnZs]

Although, I will admit it WOULD seem a bit fairer if 20 kills in a P-40 did more for your score than 20 kills in an Spit16. But the ENY numbers would have to revised abit. Some of the planes with really high ENY are dynamite fighters. Whereas the 152 and Jug N, good yes, but not ENY 5 good IMHO.

[Anaxogoras]

Although, I will admit it WOULD seem a bit fairer if 20 kills in a P-40 did more for your score than 20 kills in an Spit16. But the ENY numbers would have to revised abit. Some of the planes with really high ENY are dynamite fighters. Whereas the 152 and Jug N, good yes, but not ENY 5 good IMHO.

I don't think the HTC staff play the game enough to realize the ENY values need adjustment.  Flame away, but I'm sure the arena dynamics have changed a lot over the years.

[Kev367th]

I don't think the HTC staff play the game enough to realize the ENY values need adjustment.  Flame away, but I'm sure the arena dynamics have changed a lot over the years.

ENY values are all over the place for one reason, and one reason only -

They are now used for ENY limiting, something they weren't intended for in the first place!!!

I remember the good old days prior to ENY limits were very few planes were in single digits, look at them now.

[shreck]

ENY should be limited to arena ! As it in early war and mid war, The late war arena should have only late war planes, mid war only mid war rides, and early war---> early war rides!! This would fix the ganging by uber plane issues! If you like mid war rides-----> go there,  etc. 

[toonces3]

Humble,
I haven't been around as long as you, but I agree with your sentiments.

I've found that the best fun to be had is when you can find a group with which to fight that has your mentality.

Two examples:  one night after FSO, we had about 6 squaddies on.  We went to Mid-war and split sides, and then proceeded to dogfight each other for about 2 hours.  It was just about the most fun I've had in this game because there was really great fighting, and obviously none of us was really sweating score or name in lights or anything else.

second example:  last night.  I had a few good fights actually in mid-war.  I found some dude in a 190A5 while I was in my A-20.  I didn't recognize his name, but he probably wasn't that great because our fight went on several turns.  A good ole 1v1 with someone and it went on for about 3-5 minutes.  But, the real fun was when I figured out which base Corkyjr, Soulyss and those guys were at.  Once I figured out where they were hanging, I kept going back for more.  Sure I got shot down, but the point was the fight, not the victory.

Point is, I think your idea has merit because you can find alot of fun when you know where folks are that share your mindset with respect to having fun in the game.  That's not to say that landing kills, getting WTG's and having a good K/D doesn't feel good...but then again, I only have so long to play this game in a day/week/month, and who really cares about my score anyway?  I'd rather find like-minded folks to dogfight every night.

[Steve]

My 2 cents:

The best and perhaps only way "vets" can try to keep the game alive as they remember it is to keep to the old ways and share this with other players. I do this in my own imperfect way. If a guy HO's me on the first merge, I'll usually say something on 200.  My favorite is:  "HO DENIED, player xxxxx is in the tower." hehehehe.  If I see a 1v1 I'll ask my teammate if they want help before I join. If I see 3 or 4 guys chasing down some poor bad guy, I'll tease them with something like: " Hey there's only 4 of you guys on that guy, are you sure you don't need help?"

Picking/getting picked has almost always been part of the game, if perhaps to a lesser degree. The truth is, most of us don't like getting picked when we are in the midst of a good fight and we sometimes vent about it. I understand this, I  even whine about it if I get ganged. It's part of the game. Everyone picks at one time or another. A furball is a pick fest, if one is to be honest. You certainly don't have 20 guys from each team engaged in 20 1V1's all in the same area. To whine about getting picked in a furball is just plain foolish.

The "vets"  need to keep plugging away at newer people and explain to them that things like bombing-and-bailing or Hoing at the first merge is poor game play(with some exceptions). We cannot expect newer people to come in the game and know the more's of our community.  Teach, teach, teach.

The ranking system isn't awful, in it's current incarnation, IMHO. I'd tweak it in a couple of places to be honest. I'll admit this new phenominon of landing kills in the DA is not good for that arena, IMHO. I think they should do away with  the "landed kills"  message in the DA.

[iTunes]

What I've found is kind of like a double edged sword, I find that if I stay high enough then usually I'll get a good fight (win or die, still get a good fight), sometimes I'll get a runner which might be a 2 sector chase and then I'll just stop chasing after a scetor or so as it's just not worth the hassle, The other side of the coin is that you can get lonely up high around 18-22k and it's hard to find a fight.
The other side is when you get below the magic number of 10k, that's when you enter gang city, sure, you'll find fights real fast but you'll end up with the usual assortment of lgays, 16's and all the rest just waiting to pounce and run you down, ho's are the norm below this alt and so I do my best to try and stay above that number but the action is mostly below it, There's only so many ho's you can avoid before being nailed or ganged.
You guys know what I mean, there you are down low on a one v one and then the horde arrive to fight each other over the pickings, it's times like that I wish killshooter was off as you could probably rack up a fair few proxies alone as they all get in each others way for the spoils....

[A8HatTrick]

For those who where in War Birds when HT was there, then you can admit that the Main Arena Being set in a "Rolling Plane Set" and the "Instant Action" arenas had their advantages.

It seperated the gamers from the Sim Flyers, and everyone was happy on both ends.

For those that dont know I will explain briefly.

Rolling Plane Set.. IE the MA for lack of a better term, was the arena where each month rotated European and Pacific maps.  The month featured acft appropriate to that theatre with the first week being 1939/1940 Second week being 40/41 third 42/43 fourth being 44/45.  Granted it was 9 years ago but that was the jest of it.

The Instant action map was basically a map like Tank Town but similar in size to 1/4th of the map we see today.

And of course we had SA's similar to FSO's and such each week.  But there the community was much smaller, much older, much more involved with the designers and where pretty much to the last drop SIM enthusiast with a strong passion for WWII aircraft and history.

HT has taken that concept, put marketting and target audience as it relates to $$ into the mix and found what they believe to be a balance.

But I agree, it is terribly frustrating to fly from the SIM perspective and look to inject historical ACM and a strong will to get it home in one piece, when there are tons of squeakers out there who simply are suiciding it in on every target they see simply for the instant thrill that console gaming has brainwashed them into thinking is "good" gamemenship.

Ok, Im rambling now.

The main difference IMHO, is people who could afford to pay by the hour (Early War Birds), brought a higher appreciation and commitment to the experience than what you can expect to get for $15 a month.  But HT cant pay his bills with that small of a community. The squeakers pay the bills. It is just that simple.

[toonces3]

You know, the thing is this:  Back maybe 6 months ago, the AvA was exactly what Humble describes (if I am interpreting your post correctly).  Yet, the numbers were always low.  Why?

AvA 'had' a nicely matched 'rolling' planeset, new/different/nicer terrains, uncapturable fields, no bombers or nobody flying bombers, respectable players, and good fights.  In fact, all that was missing was more players.

So, you all HAD this arena, and you didn't use it.  Why?  Why not use that arena when it was there to have these 'elite' fights?

I just wonder if this is a true 'it used to be better' or if this is a 'I'm not having fun' post.  Because I think you had what you wanted, but didn't know you wanted it.  Or you didn't want it then.

And, for that matter, I rarely see more than 5 players on in the AvA now on a given night.  So, in fact, it's still there and I'll bet you could get some good fights in there without setting up another arena.

Not trying to be argumentative, more just thinking out loud.  I find myself bored to tears in AH2 anymore.  I'm finding some nice fights in MW the last few nights, but it takes some time to get em, and some work on 200.

[Anaxogoras]

For those who where in War Birds when HT was there, then you can admit that the Main Arena Being set in a "Rolling Plane Set" and the "Instant Action" arenas had their advantages.

It seperated the gamers from the Sim Flyers, and everyone was happy on both ends.

For those that dont know I will explain briefly.

Rolling Plane Set.. IE the MA for lack of a better term, was the arena where each month rotated European and Pacific maps.  The month featured acft appropriate to that theatre with the first week being 1939/1940 Second week being 40/41 third 42/43 fourth being 44/45.  Granted it was 9 years ago but that was the jest of it.

Glad to see another former Warbirds pilot who actually liked the RPS.   Watch out!  Around here the RPS is reviled, and people insist that no one likes it once it's implemented.

[TequilaChaser]

You know, the thing is this:  Back maybe 6 months ago, the AvA was exactly what Humble describes (if I am interpreting your post correctly).  Yet, the numbers were always low.  Why?

AvA 'had' a nicely matched 'rolling' planeset, new/different/nicer terrains, uncapturable fields, no bombers or nobody flying bombers, respectable players, and good fights.  In fact, all that was missing was more players.

So, you all HAD this arena, and you didn't use it.  Why?  Why not use that arena when it was there to have these 'elite' fights?

I just wonder if this is a true 'it used to be better' or if this is a 'I'm not having fun' post.  Because I think you had what you wanted, but didn't know you wanted it.  Or you didn't want it then.

And, for that matter, I rarely see more than 5 players on in the AvA now on a given night.  So, in fact, it's still there and I'll bet you could get some good fights in there without setting up another arena.

Not trying to be argumentative, more just thinking out loud.  I find myself bored to tears in AH2 anymore.  I'm finding some nice fights in MW the last few nights, but it takes some time to get em, and some work on 200.

I did not read all 4 pages, but Steve's reply above, Hajo's reply on 1st page and humbles 1st 2 or 3 post are all correct.......

and toonces, humble, as well as Steve, Shane, ManeTMP, NathBDP, Leviathan, citabrai/Fester, m00t, Widewing, Big Max, Grimlen, wotan, me ( TC ), Stang, Flyboy, Murdr, AKAK, octavious, REDD.....you get the picture by now I hope, we all played in the old CT now called AvsA arena and have played there under that arena's both names..we all enjoyed those fights, but those fights even at theose times were sit and wait for people to log on, people who want what humble is looking for, or people like the DFC ( Dog Fighters Club ), are people who are here for Quality fights, fought with proper ACM tactics, and could give not 1 poop about rank, score, ego, who won or loss.......we care about that adrenaline rush , the sweaty palms fight /fly to survive experience

for those that want help, all you got to do is ASK, many old timer great sticks are here willing to show you the ropes, and if you really want to be the best, just enroll in the 'coming soon" Aces High Fighter Training Academy........and go thru the whole thing ( all levels ) if you think you got the willpower a per serverance to see it thru and graduate....

and in closing I got to go send an email to help a fellow AH PLayer with some training he requested when I was down sick last week...

btw.....noone hurt my toes, I wear steel toe boots 

[toonces3]

You an SH-60 bubba TC?  I used to fly Orions out of Jax when I was with VP-30.

.hijack=off

[TequilaChaser]

You an SH-60 bubba TC?  I used to fly Orions out of Jax when I was with VP-30.

.hijack=off

nah an old S3A viking nose picker here.......they decomissioned our squad may of last year, but they still flying a few of them S3B viking versions around here for a lil while longer ...... I was last stationed out of Cecilfield back in the 80's......Good Times  Good Times