MWA as bad as any other arena now:(

[WWhiskey]

well there whiskey now that you made that sound so warm and cozy.when i was a knit there was plenty times when there was a CV at a base and there was a good fight going on you guys had to sink it.when we asked not to. same thing when our squad was flying to a field trying to find a fight you guys came in and attacked the field drop all the hangers then all that was lefted was to shoot the damn buildings sorry not into that then i watched not just single players but whole squads either leave MIDWAR or switch to the knights leaving not much left to do but attack fields.so we posted in our forum at the end of that tour we we're switching from the knights. well as you know we lost a lot of guys because of this that's fine they want to play that way that's there deal . and when i switched i caught first hand why the other country's were complaining about the way the knights would come in at times 15 to 20 strong against a couple defenders damn Ive seen more c47s then there was defenders at a couple fields that to me isn't fair play then there were high alt fighters to pick any uppers till the 5 or 6 sets of Lang's drop every hanger on the base and now tell me why you would think that anyone would be happy or have fun with odds like that.

 maybe i didn't make everything clear we never care or cared if it was 20v20 or 20v2 that's not what we do or why we do it, we like to take bases and win wars, when we want to fight we go to the D.A.  so yes if there was a CV we sank it, if there is a threat we try to get rid of it, if we want to take a map we level it!
 if you don't like it, take down the ord ,stop us from being able to!
 as far as switching sides, i have said before, my group always fly's knights, we always have, and i don't expect us to change anytime soon.
 the only real problem i see is the fact that the knights get overloaded with players sometimes, just as the bish and the rooks, maybe the eny should be more aggressive, say 20v2 disables all flight or something! ( i can't believe i just said that) that would stop the problem, at least as i see it!    then again maybe not, because the side switchers could then stop a country from defending itself, like alot of them seem to be doing now!( the numbers are not always what they seem)
 as for you,, do you want 1v1 dogfights, 2v12 5v7, 10 v 17 , your complaint against me does not solve your problem, do you want to shoot at bombers or have a ground battle, whatever it is, if you don't do the prep work to set up the battle,(I.E. ords, hangers,) then chances are you are not going to get what you want out of it!
 i am sure you know i like to GV fight, but if i don't go pork your base, one of your guy,s ( that probably died by my hand in a tank)will bomb my tank, is that his fault? should i tell him on 200 what an #$% he is for not playing fair?
or should i go take down the ords?
 just tell us all what you really want!!

 i might add that flying around in mid war killing the same 10 guys, or being killed by some other 10 guys all the time would really be boring, but i am sure you know that since i see your side trying to re create our way of taking bases, with mass bomber missions, possibly to win a map if for no other reason than to get a different one! lord knows we don't do it for the perks.
 maybe the limit allowed into mid should reflect the number of players on each side, also  the side switching should be changed tho i don't no what to change it to, i just thought it was funny that when we stop attacking your side you suddenly switch to whatever side  we are attacking, no matter what the numbers are

[Qrsu]

Snaphook, I have complete respect for your opinions and how you fly - you've shown me so much in your films which are very insightful and educational. While I agree that it's a shame to get "picked" after engaging in a good 1v1 I still look at it like this... Someone saved your opponent from getting shot down, he was helping his countryman out by clearing his six. Now, as unfortunate for you as it may be, the guy can't really be faulted for helping a teammate out UNLESS said teammate wanted to stick out the 1v1 until the death. Thus the situation would have been that he was robbed of his potential kill or simply finishing off an honourable duel.

It's really HARD to ensure that all your fights will be fair - in fact, I find that impossible. You put yourself at a disadvantage initially by flying an SBD against a Spit 16... of course your skills really make up for that - but you fell victim to what is common in the MA...


Again, I respect what you stand for and how you approach the game - I wish to someday become proficient in ACM in all planes vs anything that comes my way... but I still realize that teamwork is a VITAL aspect of the game and it works both ways - if you fly solo, expect to get ganged... wing with another and you can stand a good chance against most of the opposition that comes your way... fly in a formation (squad size... group size... etc..) and you can potientially *dominate* whatever you encounter.

In the end - I support the idea that this is a game that allows for many play styles. I'm grateful to be surrounded by a community of many of such styles as it keeps me on my toes. There are, of course, issues in the game that are somewhat painful (HOing, vulching, etc...) but there really are no rules against them, just an expectancy that they won't happen. Everyone should continue to respect each other's willingness to log in and partake in the game. Do what makes YOU happy, that's why I fly AH. 

Qrsu

[humble]

Qrsu,

It's hard to really clearly define the problem, its not really an issue of a 1 on 1 being busted up. I'll just look to WWhiskey's post. This isnt aimed at him or his squad but this is my take on the reality. There never is a "20-20". Not a single one of the "big" squads on any side rides to the sound of the guns any more. You can look at a map with 400+ folks on it and see hordes on all 3 sides. Now this is going to the MWA where you'll see the same thing. Even a year ago you'd often see great squad on squad/side on side action. Now what we see are 20+K hordes often on there own side of the line unless they have 4-5/1 odds. From what I see the MWA has suffered the same fate as the old CT....its been infested by squads that cant function in the LWA arena's but can horde a map with low #'s in the MWA...basically the small fish/smaller pond syndrome.

[CAP1]

Qrsu,

It's hard to really clearly define the problem, its not really an issue of a 1 on 1 being busted up. I'll just look to WWhiskey's post. This isnt aimed at him or his squad but this is my take on the reality. There never is a "20-20". Not a single one of the "big" squads on any side rides to the sound of the guns any more. You can look at a map with 400+ folks on it and see hordes on all 3 sides. Now this is going to the MWA where you'll see the same thing. Even a year ago you'd often see great squad on squad/side on side action. Now what we see are 20+K hordes often on there own side of the line unless they have 4-5/1 odds. From what I see the MWA has suffered the same fate as the old CT....its been infested by squads that cant function in the LWA arena's but can horde a map with low #'s in the MWA...basically the small fish/smaller pond syndrome.

that's part of why i was a lil upset last night, when i didn't pm ya in time for a good fight.
when you ame into the action over A5, it had only been recent that we pushed the fight back to there. yaks, qsru, and me were defending A4, from 5 or 6. hell, qsru tried to engage a spixteen, flown by hitman. this guy refused to engage Q, but dove for speed, trying to reel me in. i think he thought i didn;t know he was there. he chased me for close to a sector, before i finally rolled over and inned him. i was in a PJ, against his spixteen. whelp....all this guy had was the HO. every re-merge, he tried face shooting me. finally on the 4th(i think) pass, i gave up trying to avoid it, and returned fire. i got the white message saying he collided with me, and lost my left wing(no orange message telling me i hit him, so i figured he landed rounds on me), but he went in. i hadda bail. re-upped, and headed north for some alt and speed. came back, found a zeek, being very well flown by kostic. i knew i couldn't even remotly attemp to ruen with him, so i tried e-fighting him. ,,,,,pour on the coals, if he presented a shot, i took it..if not, i did a shallow climb, rolled over, and tried again. after a couple of these, and i did nick him on one of those passes, i get picked by a high 38. re-up, get als n speed, go for the 38, and he runs..or extends...till we're outta wep, and eventually kills me. at least that was fun. but when i re-upped agian, he just ran. he really NEEDED to see his name in lights i guess.  shortly after that, though, we managed to push the fighting back to 5. there were a few fun fights there, but everyone was getting picked.....i REALLY need to learn to 1) pay attentiohn when someone warns me that there's a con on my six, and 2) when to cut n run. i died way too much last night, because i didn;t do those two things. i was stayin in the 38G for those fights, as although she's a bit slow, she can sorta kinda turn with the types of planes the defenders were flying in.


BTW......kostic....if you read the forums......sorry 'bout that pick.......you were verticle, and literally filled my gunsight....i couldn't NOT squeez the trigger on that one.
 snap.......try to not get dissillusioned in MW. we need good sticks like you in there. in some of my other posts, i was lumping you in with the 80th guys, and the sapp guys.......and i seriously did enjoy that fight a couple weeks ago, and the ensueing conversation. guys like you are the ones that make this game fun. just hang in there......the horde thing'll pass, i think.

lazy......YOU'RE gonna get outta that hurri o deth?????????   

<<S>>

[Qrsu]

Snaphook,

Roger. I understand what you mean. I was just responding because I see a lot of people accusing people of having no skill because they need someone to clear their six or that they are the ones who clear someone's six for an 'easy' kill... I just wanted to point out that it's pretty much guaranteed to happen in the LWA (MWA is probably a little different, but it IS a main arena after all). I just wish we could all just get along, respect eachothers flying skills and style; more importantly LEARN and grow from our experiences from encounters with people such as yourself. 

Qrsu

[bongaroo]

so it comes down to landgrabbers vs furballers whiskey?

So many arguments come back to this and the part that always gets me is that landgrabbers grief furballers.  Good furball going?  Forget about it, a griefer will be along shortly.  Furballers don't ruin any landgrabbers fun with maybe the exception when landgrabbers are whining that everyone is wasting their time furballing over FT/TT and their precious bases are all being taken back. 

Seems a little lopsided, huh?

[CAP1]

so it comes down to landgrabbers vs furballers whiskey?

So many arguments come back to this and the part that always gets me is that landgrabbers grief furballers.  Good furball going?  Forget about it, a griefer will be along shortly.  Furballers don't ruin any landgrabbers fun with maybe the exception when landgrabbers are whining that everyone is wasting their time furballing over FT/TT and their precious bases are all being taken back. 

Seems a little lopsided, huh?

whelp.......to play devils advocate here..........furballers, WILL eventually drop and start shooting at wirbles, tanks, aqnd m3's. especially seeing as that the wribles sit there, and try to pick off the furballers if there's no ground-bound targets.

 the squadron i used to be in, used to love running the map, especially when we were mostly in EW. still did when we first came to MW. BUT.....they'd ask for help. if we all got together to do it, good..if not....o well.
 the squad i'm in now likes to set up coordinated attacks on bases, and take em. same thing. if they cll for help, and we all come, then good. if only some of us come, then good.

 i fail to see the problem in either case. there's ALWAYS a good fight, in the air, and/or on land. sometimes having a cv near a coastal base makes for incredible fights.

 now, i know somwone's gonna come and say ""well, when they drop the hangars, then there can't be a fight"".  well.....i know a lot of you guys like defending too. BUT,,,,,here's the key. if you even REMOTLY suspect a coordinated attack comming, why exactly does EVERYONE wait till the last second to defend? and then complain about the 16k lancs?
 you pretty much knew an attack was OTW, simply by the bardar. there should've already been fighters launched. a spit can easily be to 16 or 17k before lancs get there. even if they get their first drop off, they shouldn't get their second drop. with proper defence, there should never be all of the fighter hangars down at one time.

 everyone complains that ""you guys interfere with my fun because you don't play like i do!!""   
well......adapt. try to spoil their fun. that's what's going to make the fun fights.

 me personally? sometimes i'm in the mood, where i'll load rockets and bombs under my wings, and go blow things up. sometimes i jump in lancs, and make lots of things go BOOM. other times, i just like to furball.
 no matter how ya cut it, these ALL are part of the fight, especially near a base. they all support the squad action too, just like a coordinated defence will support the defenders squads.

<<S>>

[BnZs]

""well, when they drop the hangars, then there can't be a fight"".  well.....i know a lot of you guys like defending too. BUT,,,,,here's the key. if you even REMOTLY suspect a coordinated attack comming, why exactly does EVERYONE wait till the last second to defend? and then complain about the 16k lancs?
 you pretty much knew an attack was OTW, simply by the bardar. there should've already been fighters launched. a spit can easily be to 16 or 17k before lancs get there.

There still remain various problems Cap. We can start with the fact that because of the way buff formations work in AHII, intercepting buff formations is generally less rewarding than attacking fighters, so people don't. DAR and Radar is completely vague on type of incoming and altitude, two things which are not true historically.

It would help defenders know if they should up dedicated interceptors and position for buff hunting or prepare for a fighter sweep.

And too many of the types who launch "coordinated attacks" go somewhere else if the first wave fails. It is so common for defenders to see one wave come in, position themselves to defend against the next wave, only to see the huge dar bar move to some other base.

I'm not a "everyone should fly all fighters all the time" snob, but the game IS called "Aces High" and I wish the issue of which side was winning the struggle for air superiority in the furball was more indicative of who was winning the battle.

And the Spit is not a good interceptor...it  can get up there fast alright, but is not tough, not especially heavily armed, doesn't have a large ammo load out, has a limited time on station, and is a bit slower than one would like for chasing high B-24s running balls-to-the-wall.

[humble]

The controlling variable is the ability to mount a defense, regardless of the arena. Now in the MWA you commonly see some significant variation in numbers with the least #'d side at a big disadvantage. More often then not the sides are clustered such that you either are flying at a severe disadvantage or with overwhelming odds. I upped last night and switched to the low side and tried to find a decent fight...

Here is the 1st hop...
http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/film78.ahf

and the 2nd...
http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/film79.ahf

Now by this time there were at least 6-7 cons, I upped an FM-2 and promptly got ganged...so I logged. To me this is the simple equation, if there is one of me and 5-6 of you then you can either give me a reasonable chance for a fun time or not. If you dont then i'll log...but the truth is that for me and a lot of others we're awful close to just leaving. I've quit 4-5 times or more but when I go this time I wont be coming back...

[Qrsu]

Haven't had a chance to watch the films just yet, but again I get what your saying and I sympathize. There's no reason for 5-6 guys to chase down 1 guy... that's different from what I mentioned before of having one guy clear another's six...

When I see the fight is in our favor... 2/3/4 on 1 or more I skirt the fight and look for something else, no reason to lose altitude or speed to chase down someone who's already screwed.

Snaphook, before you call it a day and leave AH for good (which I hope doesn't happen) - I have to ask one question: do you always fly solo? If so, are your expectations always to find a fair 1v1 in the arenas? I just know that when I fly solo and commit to one guy that unless I can finish him off quickly there will always be a number of cons in the area looking to swoop down and get me while I'm committed.
I just suggest try to fly with a group of guys, winged as a pair at the very least, so that it's not just you vs the world. I find fights become more controllable and enjoyable with a wingman, someone to watch your six incase someone you didnt see starts coming down on your six.

Not judging your style whatsoever, it's just clear that you're burnt out because of the odd-numbers coming at you all the time. No matter how good you are in a 1v1, you know there's likely to be more so why not bring more? It's a learning experience and challenge in of itself, afterall... working as a team.

Hopefully you don't quit, Snaphook. I think it would be a great loss to the community if you did. 

Qrsu

[The Fugitive]

I agree Snap, I can't understand where the fun is in being one of 5 guys jumping all over a single con ! Its very rare you'll see me chasing a single with a bunch of other guys. If you do its because I was on him first and due to my aim being crap it gives half the arena time to hone in on my target 

Some people are wayyyyy to much into either getting there names in lights, or up the scoreboards. If they last long enough, they will learn that the point of the game is "the fight". Whether in the air, on the ground, or taking bases, the "fight" is what should be the main idea. If you're trying to "win the war" FIGHT for it ! don't sneak in a NOE here, then jump over there for another and so on. Don't run away because the first wave didn't get it down, regroup and try again, its the fight that is fun. GVs are the same.... how much fun is it to sit at a spawn and pop off spawning GVs? Find a spot to ambush them in route to their target. It makes it more fun for both side as you look to get them before they find you, and they have the chance to defend themselves and break through. Or are the "great" GVers we have not up to fighting their way through?

[lazydog]

well this is all good but when this mostly goes on is before 6 pm and there's very low #s on the bish and rook side  ill up against the horde and ill get my few kills sure .its funny i remember a sqaud the S.O.A.R.S in EW doing this and everyone in this game tore eaglehrt a new 1 and you read posts about this all the time in late war too. you wanna run maps your sqaud switch to low side then run it
 

[humble]

I've been here since the open Beta and was a part of the initial training corps here. I'm part of one of the larger squads in AH (70 or so total). If I wasnt in the squad I'd have left long ago to be honest, simply a great bunch. This isnt about me (or anyone else) staying or going...but the truth is that there are a lot of us who do feel the same way about the degradation of game play. There are also a bunch of others who have embraced the "new style"...so be it. Can I play the new way sure, but why? It takes minimal skill and requires a lot of artificial play to "succeed". Could I dust off the hog and do well in the MA's...sure. However to me thats going backward. I'm simply amazed that the entire concept of "fair play" appears to be leaving the game. What made the game special was the ability was the ACM vs real people (again just my opinion)...

[BlauK]

Just a thought:

Do people whine about how AI plays in some other type of offline games? Or do they find ways to beat or pass them?

If one's own enjoyment depends heavily on what other player do, one will have a hard time enjoying this game. We all are just game pieces to each other, but much more unpredictable ones than AI. That is what makes it interesting.

If one concentrates on doing what he enjoys despite of what others do, one may have fun.

[CAP1]

well this is all good but when this mostly goes on is before 6 pm and there's very low #s on the bish and rook side  ill up against the horde and ill get my few kills sure .its funny i remember a sqaud the S.O.A.R.S in EW doing this and everyone in this game tore eaglehrt a new 1 and you read posts about this all the time in late war too. you wanna run maps your sqaud switch to low side then run it
 

hey dude....don;t forget....in EW, we used to do that too.

how many maps did we reset? i seem to remember a LOT. i;m not critisizng that, just pointing it out.

the soars, used to give us awsome fights too.