Your new gun law idea

[Hornet33]

i agree with your argument in the most part.

but most of the guns used illegally were obtained by someone stealing them from an owner who left it where it was easily obtainable or actually given/sold to someone in an illegal manner and then claimed stolen later on.

they make gun safes, and trigger locks ect to prevent people from easily obtaining and using a weapon stolen from the owner.

if you lock up your weapons to the best of your reasonable ability then you would be exempt from any penalty inncured by the theft of the weapon. if you put it in a safe with a trigger lock on it, then you have complied with the gun safety laws and done all that could reasonably be asked of you as an individual to prevent your weapons from being stolen and subsequently used in a criminal manner.

obviously, if someone wants it bad enough they will come up with some inventive creative and unforeseeable way to get them. but if you have taken every precaution then you have done what is reasonable and responsible and should not be held liable.

by the way the law states that you must remove the keys from your vehicle and (in some states secure the vehicle) before leaving it unattended or you may be held financially responsible for the actions of any other person using said vehicle.

i agree with the theory that if you don't secure it then you should be culpable for it.

responsibility is something that should be practiced by all who chose to own an item that is designed and intended to take life, whether that be human or animal. the biggest reason criminals have weapons is the irresponsible or criminal actions of those who get them legally.

but most people do nothing to secure their weapons. they stuff them in a closet with the bullets on the shelf or even in the magazine. they may or may not set the safety, they take no precaution and they don't care what that weapon my do to someone else if it should fall into the hands of a person with evil intent.

if you chose to be irresponsible then you should suffer the consequences of that decision.

FLOTSOM

So I'm irresposible because I keep my 12 gauge shotgun loaded and under my bed? I also keep my 9mm automatic pistol loaded with 15 in the mag and one up the pipe with a spare 15 round mag in the kid glove on the holster. Both of those weapons are ALWAYS loaded and within reach. They are out of sight when I leave my house and lock the door behind me. If someone were to break in, find those weapons, and take them, you think I should be held responsible for what that criminal, who has already broken the law by breaking into my home and stealing from me, does with those weapons?

I don't think so. That would be like you having your car stolen. Think about this and tell me if it makes sense to you. You come home and park your car in your garage and leave the keys in it. You close the garage door and then later a friend comes and picks you up in his car and you go to the store for something. You come back home and find the garage door open and your car is missing. You call the police to report it stolen and the officer tells you to wait right there. A police officer pulls up, gets your information, then places you under arrest. You are being charged with a crime because while you were at the store with your friend, your car that was stolen was involved in a multi car crash and someone died.

Do you think you should be charged with a crime? Do you think the family of the victim has the right to sue you? Do you think you should go to jail for 3 years?

No you don't, because you have the reasonable expectation that your car is secure inside your garage, on your property. Doesn't matter if the keys were in it or not. It was secured inside the garage and the ONLY way someone was able to get to it was to break into your garage and take it.

It would only be irresponsible if I left my windows wide open, a gun laying on the coffee table in plain view with the doors unlocked, but even then the ONLY way someone can get that gun is to break the law in the first place by illegally entering my home and taking it. Yeah it would be stupid for me to do something like that, but you can't charge someone with being stupid. The only way you can charge someone like that is if they left a gun outside where anyone could walk by and pick it up.

[CAVPFCDD]

Flotsom i was just sayin we agreed that no matter what criminals will get to weapons, i didn't say anyone was suggest an out right ban of guns in the last thread, but that would be the only thing that could possibly work, since all these laws don't seem to have a significant impact on gun crimes.

Where theres a will there is a way

[CAP1]

only  playing devils advocate here.......as with that particular bar across the street from ya, i understand why you keep em loaded.

but.........you come home from a long hard day at work. u8nfortunatly, as you walk through your front door, the guy that broke in is on his way out. he's found your loaded guns. he shoots ya multiple times with em.

 that's part of the point of why i say properly secured. if they were in a safe, that could not happen.

 from readin a lot of your posts, i like ya dude(and am curious how your experiment came out), and don't ever wanna read in the paper about something like this...but you see my point though?
<<S>>

[FLOTSOM]

So I'm irresposible because I keep my 12 gauge shotgun loaded and under my bed? I also keep my 9mm automatic pistol loaded with 15 in the mag and one up the pipe with a spare 15 round mag in the kid glove on the holster. Both of those weapons are ALWAYS loaded and within reach. They are out of sight when I leave my house and lock the door behind me. If someone were to break in, find those weapons, and take them, you think I should be held responsible for what that criminal, who has already broken the law by breaking into my home and stealing from me, does with those weapons?

I don't think so. That would be like you having your car stolen. Think about this and tell me if it makes sense to you. You come home and park your car in your garage and leave the keys in it. You close the garage door and then later a friend comes and picks you up in his car and you go to the store for something. You come back home and find the garage door open and your car is missing. You call the police to report it stolen and the officer tells you to wait right there. A police officer pulls up, gets your information, then places you under arrest. You are being charged with a crime because while you were at the store with your friend, your car that was stolen was involved in a multi car crash and someone died.

Do you think you should be charged with a crime? Do you think the family of the victim has the right to sue you? Do you think you should go to jail for 3 years?

No you don't, because you have the reasonable expectation that your car is secure inside your garage, on your property. Doesn't matter if the keys were in it or not. It was secured inside the garage and the ONLY way someone was able to get to it was to break into your garage and take it.

It would only be irresponsible if I left my windows wide open, a gun laying on the coffee table in plain view with the doors unlocked, but even then the ONLY way someone can get that gun is to break the law in the first place by illegally entering my home and taking it. Yeah it would be stupid for me to do something like that, but you can't charge someone with being stupid. The only way you can charge someone like that is if they left a gun outside where anyone could walk by and pick it up.

here is the quick and simple of it,

GUN OWNERSHIP IS A RIGHT THAT BEARS A RESPOSIBILITY!

if you chose to leave your weapon in such a manner that it can EASILY be stolen, the yes damn right you should be held responsible.

you chose to leave your weapon in a condition that allows for its immediate use without impedance then you chose to be held responsible for it.

if you lock it in a safe (combination style) and/or put a trigger lock or breach guard on it, then it cannot be used without the combination and a key. you have done all that is reasonable to secure that weapon from the misuse of another.

if you are too lazy and too irresponsible to maintain your weapon in a safe fashion and another person becomes a victim of it, then you should suffer as you have allowed others to suffer.

yes you by your irresponsible actions and omission of actions allowed it to be stolen. because most people cannot get into a good gun safe on sight, and very few of those who could get into a gun safe will try to remove a trigger or breach guard as it will just damage the weapon.

it is the irresponsibility of people just like you that put most of the weapons out there in the hands of those who should not have them!

you vehicle analogy is worthless in this conversation. vehicles are not built for nor are they intended to be used as weapons. thus they do not fall under the category as described in the above posts.

your ownership of a vehicle is what is called a privilege not a constitutional right, so again it does not fit the argument at hand.

finally on the automotive issue, in most states if you leave the keys in your vehicle and it is stolen you can (and in most cases will) be held civilly responsible for any damages caused by said vehicle even if it was locked in a garage. check that fact with your auto insurance.

any law governing the control of weapons is worthless as long as people that think like you do are allowed to leave their weapons in a manner that allow others to easily obtain usable control of them.

your personal irresponsibility and laziness will someday cause the harm of another.

but even worse it will be the weapons easily stolen from people like you that will allow the government to enact laws that prevent mature rational responsible individuals from owning and enjoying the RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. every gun restriction law on the books is based upon the weapons that have at some point fallen into the hands of those who should not have them, using them to harm others. most common reason these weapons fall into the hands of those who shouldn't have them is the theft from the home of those who fail to secure them properly.

this is also the major contributing factor to accidental shootings. kids get a hold of their parents guns because they know where the weapon is and that it is unlocked. show me one accidental shooting case where the kid got the weapon from a locked safe and cut off the trigger or breach guard and then accidentally shot themselves or another with it.

if you chose to own it you chose to bear the responsibility of it, that is the best form of control!

i only pray that should someone ever get a hold of your weapon due to your failure to secure it, that its you and not someones child that suffers for it.

FLOTSOM

[Speed55]

you vehicle analogy is worthless in this conversation. vehicles are not built for nor are they intended to be used as weapons. thus they do not fall under the category as described in the above posts.
 again it does not fit the argument at hand.

FLOTSOM

Your into knives and swords and stuff right? What's your opinion if someone broke into your house, took one of your knives or swords and went running down the street hacking peoples heads off like some sort of demented braveheart?
Should you be held responsible?
Even better, suppose they didn't even take one of your weapon knives or swords, but a simple kitchen butchers knife. Should your wife now be held responsible?

Edit: I got confused with the avatar.  ink is into the martial arts stuff. But still curious as to what your opinion is if something like that happened.

[Hornet33]

Chock it up to personal preferance then. I PREFER to keep my weapons in a ready condition i.e. no trigger lock, loaded, and easy for me to get to. An unloaded, locked up weapon is USELESS when seconds count.

Beyond that I was a Coast Guard boarding officer for 4 years....direct translation Federal Law Enforcement Officer that was charged with upholding International Law, Federal Law, State Law, and Local Law.

Your idea to charge a lawfull gun owner if their weapons are stollen from them and then used in a crime borders on insane. As I said, if the weapons are in my home, then I have the reasonable expectation that they will be there when I return as it is a crime for someone to enter my home and take my things. Never mind that the Supreme Court ruling in Heller vs DC stated that any law that restricts a person from keeping a weapon in a ready to use status is un Constitutional. Yes that was brought up in the case because while handguns were banned in DC, long guns could be kept but were required to have a trigger lock on them or be disasembled. That was ruled un Constitutional so your law would never pass muster anyway on those grounds alone.

Have a nice day.

[Vulcan]

if you chose to leave your weapon in such a manner that it can EASILY be stolen, the yes damn right you should be held responsible.

you chose to leave your weapon in a condition that allows for its immediate use without impedance then you chose to be held responsible for it.

if you lock it in a safe (combination style) and/or put a trigger lock or breach guard on it, then it cannot be used without the combination and a key. you have done all that is reasonable to secure that weapon from the misuse of another.

if you are too lazy and too irresponsible to maintain your weapon in a safe fashion and another person becomes a victim of it, then you should suffer as you have allowed others to suffer.

You know I'm fairly pro-gun laws in our country (NZ). And we have some good laws, including laws surrounding the safe storage of firearms. As part of a Firearms License application a local firearms police officer will pop by and inspect your storage. So safe storage is rated very important here. We're also told to store the firearm separate from the bolt and ammo.

However, some feedback from a country that pushes for safe storage... the reasoning behind it is less about weapons being stolen and more about simple safety. IE stopping kids playing with guns and accidentally killing themselves (or their friends).

In cases where people have burgled homes with firearms locked gun safes have proven futile in stopping thieves stealing the firearms. Most of the firearms in the hands of criminals here are stolen, and stolen from gunsafes/locked gun racks.

[FLOTSOM]

Your into knives and swords and stuff right? What's your opinion if someone broke into your house, took one of your knives or swords and went running down the street hacking peoples heads off like some sort of demented braveheart?
Should you be held responsible?
Even better, suppose they didn't even take one of your weapon knives or swords, but a simple kitchen butchers knife. Should your wife now be held responsible?

Edit: I got confused with the avatar.  ink is into the matial arts stuff. But still curious as to what your opinion is if something like that happened.

actually i am into swords knives axes and other medieval weapons. me and ink share that interest.

as a responce to the first half of your question, if it is created and intended to act as a weapon then you, as the person in whose care custody and control it is in, are absolutely and unconditionally responsible for securing it in a reasonable manner to prevent its missuse.

now i know that most people will disagree with me about what level the theory should be carried to, but the idea is simple, IF IT"S A WEAPON YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE. if you bought it as a weapon, (even if it is just a decorative piece hung out for display, if you know it has an edge then you know it is intended to be used as a weapon) then treat it as a weapon.

the second half of your question falls within the answer to the first half, if it is not created with the intent of being used as or replicating a weapon then it is not a weapon. a house hold knife, although it has the ability to cause bodily harm or even death, was not created nor bought with the intent or understanding that it was a weapon. if someone uses it to cause harm to another then, like in the example of the car above, that is a missuse of its intended application.

my theory is solid simple and sound, you buy a weapon you buy the responsibility that owning that weapon brings with it.

why is that so much to ask of the populace of the US?

we want everything we want when we want it but we don't want to have to be responsible for anything at any time.

my life long theory has always been very simple, be responsible for and live with the consequences of your choices.

those that would shirk their responsibility of their decision onto others are the same that drink and drive and blame it on the child for running into the road.

i have owned swords knives and maces, you can put them in a lockable case with a 3/4 inch or thicker glass door so you can see them but not have easy access to them, or you can mount them to a wall in a manner that completely secures them to the wall.

so just because they are not a gun does not exempt you from properly securing them.

Your idea to charge a lawfull gun owner if their weapons are stollen from them and then used in a crime borders on insane. As I said, if the weapons are in my home, then I have the reasonable expectation that they will be there when I return as it is a crime for someone to enter my home and take my things. Never mind that the Supreme Court ruling in Heller vs DC stated that any law that restricts a person from keeping a weapon in a ready to use status is un Constitutional. Yes that was brought up in the case because while handguns were banned in DC, long guns could be kept but were required to have a trigger lock on them or be disasembled. That was ruled un Constitutional so your law would never pass muster anyway on those grounds alone.

but there is nothing in the constitution to keep you from being held civily responsible. many tort claims arise from matters that are non-crimal. civil culpability for failing to act in a responsible manner is a b**ch.

but as a side question, why is it that when you are away from your home and your weapons are left unattended, why would that not be a good time to keep them locked up? you feel you need them locked loaded and ready to roll should someone break into your home while you are away?

i can understand keeping an attended weapon unlocked and on hand, that is the equivilant of securing it through supervision, but when you are not with it then how does it ensure you safety and ability to protect yourself?

However, some feedback from a country that pushes for safe storage... the reasoning behind it is less about weapons being stolen and more about simple safety. IE stopping kids playing with guns and accidentally killing themselves (or their friends).

In cases where people have burgled homes with firearms locked gun safes have proven futile in stopping thieves stealing the firearms. Most of the firearms in the hands of criminals here are stolen, and stolen from gunsafes/locked gun racks.

in your country they demand that you do all that is reasonable to secure these items. if you have done that then you should not be held liable. if you fail to do so then i believe you should be held responsible.

FLOTSOM

[CAP1]

Chock it up to personal preferance then. I PREFER to keep my weapons in a ready condition i.e. no trigger lock, loaded, and easy for me to get to. An unloaded, locked up weapon is USELESS when seconds count.

Beyond that I was a Coast Guard boarding officer for 4 years....direct translation Federal Law Enforcement Officer that was charged with upholding International Law, Federal Law, State Law, and Local Law.

Your idea to charge a lawfull gun owner if their weapons are stollen from them and then used in a crime borders on insane. As I said, if the weapons are in my home, then I have the reasonable expectation that they will be there when I return as it is a crime for someone to enter my home and take my things. Never mind that the Supreme Court ruling in Heller vs DC stated that any law that restricts a person from keeping a weapon in a ready to use status is un Constitutional. Yes that was brought up in the case because while handguns were banned in DC, long guns could be kept but were required to have a trigger lock on them or be disasembled. That was ruled un Constitutional so your law would never pass muster anyway on those grounds alone.

Have a nice day.

didn't they say that the kids at columbine, stole their parents guns, and ammo?

[Speed55]

actually i am into swords knives axes and other medieval weapons. me and ink share that interest.

as a responce to the first half of your question, if it is created and intended to act as a weapon then you, as the person in whose care custody and control it is in, are absolutely and unconditionally responsible for securing it in a reasonable manner to prevent its missuse.

now i know that most people will disagree with me about what level the theory should be carried to, but the idea is simple, IF IT"S A WEAPON YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE. if you bought it as a weapon, (even if it is just a decorative piece hung out for display, if you know it has an edge then you know it is intended to be used as a weapon) then treat it as a weapon.

Those that would shirk their responsibility of their decision onto others are the same that drink and drive and blame it on the child for running into the road.
FLOTSOM

I agree with you that if you own a weapon of any type that you should treat it as such.  But you're saying that if a normal guy owns a weapon, like some cool medieval sword, and some lowlife breaks into that persons home, steals that weapon and commits a crime with it, that the owner should somehow be held accountable?

 On that i totally disagree, and see it totally different, especially the last line i quoted.
The one to be held accountable, is the one that broke into the guys house and stole the weapon. Just for chits and giggles, lets say the thief sees the nice sword hanging on the wall, and finds a way to unsecure it.  Your argument sounds like something some sleezy lawyer would say.  "My client would never have killed anyone, if the person he STOLE from didn't have a fancy sword on the wall, therefore it is not my clients fault, but THE MAN HE ROBBED!"

Come on, think about it for a minute.

If you want to reply you can have the last word, i don't want this to turn political, so i'm done. 

[FLOTSOM]

I agree with you that if you own a weapon of any type that you should treat it as such.  But you're saying that if a normal guy owns a weapon, like some cool medieval sword, and some lowlife breaks into that persons home, steals that weapon and commits a crime with it, that the owner should somehow be held accountable?

 On that i totally disagree, and see it totally different, especially the last line i quoted.
The one to be held accountable, is the one that broke into the guys house and stole the weapon. Just for chits and giggles, lets say the thief sees the nice sword hanging on the wall, and finds a way to unsecure it.  Your argument sounds like something some sleezy lawyer would say.  "My client would never have killed anyone, if the person he STOLE from didn't have a fancy sword on the wall, therefore it is not my clients fault, but THE MAN HE ROBBED!"

Come on, think about it for a minute.

If you want to reply you can have the last word, i don't want this to turn political, so I'm done. 

not for the last word, not for politics, but to clarify my point.

i agree that this should in no way remove any responsibility from the person who committed the crime. he should suffer to the fullest extent of the law.

but if he went into someones house and had to pry the weapon away from the wall or steal it out of a locked safe then the owner has done everything reasonably possible and is NOT to be held responsible. i am talking about those that leave things out unsecured so that stealing them is easy.

people lock their cars not so that the cant be stolen, but so that it is harder to steal them. no lock is a guarantee of security, but it is a deterant and/or a hindrance to those that are not proficient in the art of defeating them.

I'm only saying that the owner should do everything reasonable to prevent the easy theft of them. if you have secured them in a reasonable manner then you have done all that any responsible person could or should be asked to do.

if a low life can break into your home and lift the mattress and find a loaded and ready weapon sitting there without any security to prevent its misuse then the owner is partially responsible for everything done with that fire arm.

with each lock or bar or obstruction the odds increase exponentially that the weapon will never be stolen and/or used in an unlawful fashion.

if everyone who buys a weapon understands that it is their personal responsibility to ensure that that weapon is reasonably secure at all times or they risk being held responsible, then you would quickly see a dramatic drop in the number of weapons stolen from the average persons home. why? because they would buy safes and trigger and/or breach locks to prevent their theft and/or use.

I'm only saying be responsible. don't take away the weapons just force people to realize that their poor judgment may be the cause of another person death.

FLOTSOM

[Vulcan]

Chock it up to personal preferance then. I PREFER to keep my weapons in a ready condition i.e. no trigger lock, loaded, and easy for me to get to. An unloaded, locked up weapon is USELESS when seconds count.

Ready for whom?

Ready for you?

Ready for the criminal that broke into your home and found your firearm as you pull into the driveway?

Or ready for the 6 year old boy playing cowboys and indians?

Seriously how bad is the place you live at? How many people have killed intruders? (I am asking seriously, not mocking you).

[Hornet33]

Ready for whom?

Ready for you?

Ready for the criminal that broke into your home and found your firearm as you pull into the driveway?

Or ready for the 6 year old boy playing cowboys and indians?

Seriously how bad is the place you live at? How many people have killed intruders? (I am asking seriously, not mocking you).

The Virginian-Pilot
© December 4, 2008
VIRGINIA BEACH

Blake Francis, furious after being denied entry to a sports bar because of his attire last week, fired several shots at the place, police said.

No one was harmed, but several vehicles were hit by bullets, police said.

Authorities could not explain how Francis violated the dress code at Luxury Brown Sports Bar and Dance Club. A booking photograph of the 23-year-old dreadlocked man shows him in what appears to be a white T-shirt. He was charged with two counts each of attempted malicious wounding and use of a firearm in commission of a felony.

The sports bar bans T-shirts, sports wear, tennis shoes and extremely baggy pants, according to its Web site. A telephone call was not returned Wednesday.

The business on Baker Road is owned by Barry Davis, who earlier this year settled a federal lawsuit over allegations that his hair and dress code policies at Kokoamos Island Bar, Grill and Yacht Club in Virginia Beach blocked blacks from admission.

Police spokesman Adam Bernstein said Francis and two friends tried to patronize the sports bar at 12:45 a.m. last Thursday but Francis was stopped at the door because of what he was wearing.

Police say Francis refused to leave and got into an altercation with security guards. He made several death threats to workers as he walked to his car, Bernstein said. Employees called 911.

Francis pulled out of the parking lot but moments later made a U-turn, driving toward the business, police said. He fired several gunshots, Bernstein said.

An officer spotted Francis ' tan-colored sedan on the westbound ramp of Interstate 264 at Newtown Road and stopped him. Francis was taken into custody and was being held without bail at the city jail.



This "night club" is right across the street from me. I can see the front door from my bedroom window at less than 100 yards. This was shooting number 11 this year. The parking lot in always filled with cars with loud stereos, 26" wheels with spinners, and loud obnoxious people with no regard for others, and before anyone says it, yes I'm planning on moving in June to a place closer to work that is much nicer. Don't get me wrong, the apartment complex I live in is nice and it's a gated community with security cameras and night time security guards, but the surrounding area has turned into the hood big time over the last couple of years. Crime around here has gotten bad. Thankfully the only problems we've had in the complex has been some vandalism to some cars, hence the hiring of the security guards and the raise in rent to pay for them.

As far as pulling into the parking lot here and finding someone in my place, I'd be ready for them because I have my CCW, and always carry to and from work or anywhere else I go. I don't leave my apartment without having a friend with me. If I go someplace where I can't carry it on me, I leave it locked in my truck.

My kids live with their mother. When they do come over my guns are put away. It wouldn't be a problem if I left them out though because I have trained both my kids in firearms safety and they both know not to mess with my guns without asking me first. I put them away because I don't want to listen to my ex.

The last time I faced an intruder was 6 years ago (my house in Chesapeake VA) before my ex and I split. Caught two kids, 13 year olds, who had broken into my garage one night. I didn't know who was in there when I went to look, but I had my shotgun ready. When I caught them, I held them at gun point until the police arrived to take them away. 5 years prior to that (in Wildwood NJ) I stopped a guy from stealing my truck with the same shotgun. I also use it to hunt with, so that Remington 870 has served me very well over the last 18 years that I've owned it.

[CAP1]

The Virginian-Pilot
© December 4, 2008
VIRGINIA BEACH

Blake Francis, furious after being denied entry to a sports bar because of his attire last week, fired several shots at the place, police said.

No one was harmed, but several vehicles were hit by bullets, police said.

Authorities could not explain how Francis violated the dress code at Luxury Brown Sports Bar and Dance Club. A booking photograph of the 23-year-old dreadlocked man shows him in what appears to be a white T-shirt. He was charged with two counts each of attempted malicious wounding and use of a firearm in commission of a felony.

The sports bar bans T-shirts, sports wear, tennis shoes and extremely baggy pants, according to its Web site. A telephone call was not returned Wednesday.

The business on Baker Road is owned by Barry Davis, who earlier this year settled a federal lawsuit over allegations that his hair and dress code policies at Kokoamos Island Bar, Grill and Yacht Club in Virginia Beach blocked blacks from admission.

Police spokesman Adam Bernstein said Francis and two friends tried to patronize the sports bar at 12:45 a.m. last Thursday but Francis was stopped at the door because of what he was wearing.

Police say Francis refused to leave and got into an altercation with security guards. He made several death threats to workers as he walked to his car, Bernstein said. Employees called 911.

Francis pulled out of the parking lot but moments later made a U-turn, driving toward the business, police said. He fired several gunshots, Bernstein said.

An officer spotted Francis ' tan-colored sedan on the westbound ramp of Interstate 264 at Newtown Road and stopped him. Francis was taken into custody and was being held without bail at the city jail.



This "night club" is right across the street from me. I can see the front door from my bedroom window at less than 100 yards. This was shooting number 11 this year. The parking lot in always filled with cars with loud stereos, 26" wheels with spinners, and loud obnoxious people with no regard for others, and before anyone says it, yes I'm planning on moving in June to a place closer to work that is much nicer. Don't get me wrong, the apartment complex I live in is nice and it's a gated community with security cameras and night time security guards, but the surrounding area has turned into the hood big time over the last couple of years. Crime around here has gotten bad. Thankfully the only problems we've had in the complex has been some vandalism to some cars, hence the hiring of the security guards and the raise in rent to pay for them.

As far as pulling into the parking lot here and finding someone in my place, I'd be ready for them because I have my CCW, and always carry to and from work or anywhere else I go. I don't leave my apartment without having a friend with me. If I go someplace where I can't carry it on me, I leave it locked in my truck.

My kids live with their mother. When they do come over my guns are put away. It wouldn't be a problem if I left them out though because I have trained both my kids in firearms safety and they both know not to mess with my guns without asking me first. I put them away because I don't want to listen to my ex.

The last time I faced an intruder was 6 years ago (my house in Chesapeake VA) before my ex and I split. Caught two kids, 13 year olds, who had broken into my garage one night. I didn't know who was in there when I went to look, but I had my shotgun ready. When I caught them, I held them at gun point until the police arrived to take them away. 5 years prior to that (in Wildwood NJ) I stopped a guy from stealing my truck with the same shotgun. I also use it to hunt with, so that Remington 870 has served me very well over the last 18 years that I've owned it.

wildwood? hell! that's only 55 miles from me.

here in the prnj, though, you're lucky they didnt try n take it from ya....the pd i mean. they try ANY excuse for that here.


question though?

you have a concealed carry permit.....coolness.......but ....you're a fast enough draw, that you can draw, aim, and shoot the guy in your house? the one that most likely(if he grabbed your gun) already has his weapon drawn, and most likely pointed in the general direction of where the noise(you unlocking and entering) is comming from?

now, don't take anyt of what i'm saying wrongly. i fully support our rights to own what firearms we want. i also just don't think it a good idea these days to leave em out like that. when you're home, definitly. if you carry, though, then it's much better that your home weapons would be locked in a safe while you're out.

 as a trained law enforcement officer, if you took a step back for a few minutes, and thought about this, maybe step outside the situation, you'd reason it a bit differently.
 if you were a cop, responding to a break in, would you prefer that the guy that's in there have access to that homeowners weapons? or would you rather face an unarmed(hopefully) badguy?

 flotsom pretty much nailed it. if it's a weapon, then along with the right to own it, comes the responsibility to safely secure it to the best of your ability. it's this kind of stuff that gives the anti-gun people a strong foothold on restricting legal ownership of weapons.

 not tryin to rgue with ya dude.......just tryin to get ya to see the other side of this.

<<S>>

[dentin]

I think a law, that states every one is mandatory to own a gun, and take lessons on how to use them.

there would be way less crime if the crimanals knew that every one had a gun.

INdeed...best proposal in this thread.    OH, and I'll go ya one further...the government should provide the funds for the purchase of a gun, for those that can't afford one.