Dueling: What shots do you take and what shots do you hold off on?

[moot]

My last post in this one.
Grizz - You drama queen.. You're so  'in full of it that I couldnt even correct everything that's wrong with what you wrote without getting the thread locked by sheer amount of one liner corrections.. You'd pretend 2+2 didnt = 4 anyway, like you did last time around. You are just that much of a dumb piece of  'in trash. That's not hate or a grudge.. I'm saying exactly what I see. I'm no hypocrit like you are.. You werent pushy last time around - you purposedly ignored people who showed you very concisely that what you were 'pushing' was totaly wrong, and when that didnt seem to stick, you fell back on straw men and appeals to ridicule.. which unfortunately were also completely bogus.  And you're still doing it.  Batfink isn't a disciple, or "defending" me (apparently you have some kind of accute "defense" phobia), he's calling you out for exactly what you come off and obviously are. I wasn't kiddin when I said by PM  "running with scissors".
"because I dont like moot"   me a  'in river.

Ded - you start off your post with 'advice for everyone' and then advise them to conform their opinion to yours.. Or at least inform them that they ought to not fly any other way than yours. So pointing out that it's all only your opinion is pertinent. And nope, I dont take it personal.. just chat.. except for Grizz over there.. He's persuaded that telling him what's on your mind has to be from a grudge and hate, if you happen not to dance his BS fairy dance.

Random pick:

Now, if you learn how to fight like that, always depending on the bad guy to hold fire, how on earth could you possibly apply any of this in the MA?

Not "always". It's under agreement to keep the fight going. Applying what you learn with peolpe like you and Batfink or Shane never really works in the MA, because over there most of the bogies are dead before you get to the point where you really make an effort. And anyway.. The fight is the reward.. There's no prize. It's all just pixels. Having fun with it is the point. Fun doesnt HAVE to be insta-gib. That's just opinion.. as I meant to point out.
KOTH or duel ladders and other true competitions are another story.

the end.

[grizz441]

m00t I'm surprised you even play video games.  You are the most serious person ever!  Never even seen you engaged in a joke, always crying in your wheaties though.  Try an emoticon one time or a joke.  You might enjoy yourself more.  Drama queen = you m00t.

you purposedly ignored people who showed you very concisely that what you were 'pushing' was totaly wrong, and when that didnt seem to stick, you fell back on straw men and appeals to ridicule.. which unfortunately were also completely bogus.

"Ignored" what people show me.  Meh (Btw Shane I took your interjection, I like it haha),  just like you are ignoring what I'm saying.  It's called an opinion m00t?  Believe it or not, when you speak it's opinion also.  I didn't ignore Shane's point, I just have an entirely different take on it than you do.  I'm obviously on the same page with Dedalos while you, mechanic, and Shane are on an entirely different page.(Which is fine)  So let me say it one more time.  The cheap shot that is being "given" is an early turn setting up an advantage for the next stage of the fight.  I've dueled SkyRock he does this on purpose.  He told me on VOX quote "I want to give you a shot and I want you to take it because I know if you miss, I'll have the advantage and get ya." So why would I not take a shot that is giving a better turning plane an angles advantage?  I can totally understand Shane's point that he doesn't want to come head on with me because for one, There's a ram possibility and for two, it's not realistic because on the MA you are just going to get head on'd.  So while he did pull a very good maneuver, I still have to miss for the maneuver to be complete.  One might call this, a double edged sword?  And when I'm flying against Shane I'm really in no spot to be giving Shane extra advantages by holding shots while he sets me up. 

Shane, you kept pushing home the point that you *gave* me the shot.  Yes sir you did, I *give* players shots all the time in the MA hoping they will miss because if they do, it's over, they're reversed.  Shane, since I did shoot and kill you there, it should help you because you know that what you were trying to do wasn't timed correctly.  Next time I'm sure your timing will be better and, while you might still give me a shot, it will be much more low percentage than the one you gave me.  Can we find a middle ground here?

[Skuzzy]

I shortened the length of the title so people would stop complaing about the forum only allowing 80 characters in thier posts.

[dedalos]

I shortened the length of the title so people would stop complaing about the forum only allowing 80 characters in thier posts.

 Should we start a thread for that? 

[Lusche]

Should we start a thread for that? 

Already happend.. that's why Skuzzy came here to shorten subject line.

[grizz441]

I shortened the length of the title so people would stop complaing about the forum only allowing 80 characters in thier posts.

Yeah it was kind of a crappy title name.

[Shane]

my timing wasn't "off" grizz.... think it'd be off 6-7-8 times?  with me telling you after the 3rd they were gimmes?  meh... like i said, i'm not coming down on you for taking the shot - i could have continued keeping my nose into you at the speeds i had (and despite what you claim, it wasn't me trying for some advantage, but merely trying to get out of your flight path. I know my motivations. You can only assume you knew them.)   

You'd rather gamble with internet vagaries and "try to avoid the collsion" in that case. I'd rather not risk it under the circumstances i thought we were operating with - learning the 38 and all as opposed to straight up fighting.

And beleive it or not I did hold up quite a few non-front quarter shots (whether they'd hit for an outright kill is debatable), just to allow you to keep flying/learning.

but.. really... whatever.  meh... 

[SIK1]

I'm at work right now so I can't view the films Shane posted, but I have a hunch they are the fights that we had last night.

I would like to thank Shane for the learning experience. I had fun even though I don't think I got a single hit on him (I haven't had time to review the films). Yes, there were instances where I saw what looked like a viable snapshot for him yet he held fire, and in my eyes this is a better learning experience than if he just blasted me out of the sky. The reason I say that is, it is advantages to be able to recognise when someone has, or is going to have a guns solution on you. I can't count how many times I thought I was going to have a shot on him and at the last minute he would move out of the way.

Shane I'll be looking for you in the DA I'm always willing to learn.


Thanks Skuzzy 

[mechanic]

Ded you are taking my words and making them fit your opinion. If you still dont understand my viewpoint or the reason why some of us try to make alonger fight thats too bad. It certainly has nothing to do with 'expecting to get away with an early turn' or whatever. And nope, not personal, just opinion.

S!



edit: hey Ded, here is a perfect exmaple from me and you the other day.

http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/example.ahf



At 00:55 i could have been setting up for a frontal shot and then at 00:59 you turn way early thus making any shot i could have easily set up, valid. I didnt even set up that shot, but tried to play past it to something more worthwhile. But it turns out that i should have taken it because i lose next turn. Notice my only comment is 'good shot'. This is not a complaint, I am perfectly capable of setting up those shots if i need to win. You messed up here and should have been shot at at least, if thats what you want to know here it is

[Shane]

I'm at work right now so I can't view the films Shane posted, but I have a hunch they are the fights that we had last night.

I would like to thank Shane for the learning experience. I had fun even though I don't think I got a single hit on him (I haven't had time to review the films). Yes, there were instances where I saw what looked like a viable snapshot for him yet he held fire, and in my eyes this is a better learning experience than if he just blasted me out of the sky. The reason I say that is, it is advantages to be able to recognise when someone has, or is going to have a guns solution on you. I can't count how many times I thought I was going to have a shot on him and at the last minute he would move out of the way.

Shane I'll be looking for you in the DA I'm always willing to learn.


Thanks Skuzzy 

yeah... the first one before i hopped into the 109g... it was fun (i know how squirrely i can be to put a shot on, especially in a 1 v 1 situation.)   keep at it, tho, as the 109's can give lala's fits.  it's throttle/flap work that's the key when you're lower speeds.  You can find me there these days... if I'm in FurBlake and you'd like assurances of non-interference we can move to the paired bases.  freebie hint: use the 6k base so as to take away most of the lala's wep at the 4.5k deck and above.   

[grizz441]

my timing wasn't "off" grizz.... think it'd be off 6-7-8 times?  with me telling you after the 3rd they were gimmes?  meh... like i said, i'm not coming down on you for taking the shot - i could have continued keeping my nose into you at the speeds i had (and despite what you claim, it wasn't me trying for some advantage, but merely trying to get out of your flight path. I know my motivations. You can only assume you knew them.)   

You'd rather gamble with internet vagaries and "try to avoid the collsion" in that case. I'd rather not risk it under the circumstances i thought we were operating with - learning the 38 and all as opposed to straight up fighting.

And beleive it or not I did hold up quite a few non-front quarter shots (whether they'd hit for an outright kill is debatable), just to allow you to keep flying/learning.

but.. really... whatever.  meh... 

You did hold up some front quarter shots for sure, usually on the 2nd merge when I knew I could get my plane around to you and you wouldn't shoot even though you were beating me in the turn by a second or so.  Yeah I understand you were giving me those shots Shane.  I never claimed you weren't giving them to me.  But you have to admit you are giving yourself a greater advantage pulling that move you did 7-8 times versus flying through me (assuming we don't ram  ) Whether or not this was your intention, you are creating an advantageous situation for yourself.   If I miss you there which I'm sure I did at least a couple times, you probably kill me soon after that because it's such a beautiful move and setup.  It is a bait move for sure.  The reason I say your timing is off is because how easy I was able to get guns on you.  If our goal is to be able to apply lessons learned to MA, imo me killing you with ease multiple times in that duplicate scenario might show you that your timing is slightly off there?  But like it's already been established in 8 pages of argument, we were on different pages on what we were trying to accomplish.  I was looking at it as a very challenging situation, and trying my hardest to kill you while having fun of course.  You were looking at it as not really a challenge but more so of trying to let me get the most out of it which I appreciate.  What I didn't appreciate was when I did kill you, you sort of took it away from me with a comment like Dedalos mentioned in general a page back.   I can understand why you didn't like me firing there if you were testing me and wanted to see what the fight would evolve to if I held guns there.  I guess we were just on different pages. 

[Shane]

Grizz... if it's a "fight" there's no way i'm going to give you a shot that easy, repeatedly. If they were ropes where i was stalled(ing) out that far under you, sure. But they weren't, and i wasn't.

[grizz441]

Grizz... if it's a "fight" there's no way i'm going to give you a shot that easy, repeatedly. If they were ropes where i was stalled(ing) out that far under you, sure. But they weren't, and i wasn't.

If it was a fight what would you have done differently?

[Shane]

If it was a fight what would you have done differently?

turned more into you, held it up and scooted off the shot much closer in and made the flip then, right back on your tail with you having initially more speed as ur going down, but i'd have the advantage of being above you and able to react to your next move... more than likely at that point it'd evolve into more of a rolling scissors... which is where you need the work on, no?     

we already both know the lala can climb like a raped ape, and the 38 can float like an angel... in that roping situation, it becomes who stalls out first, and then it's either a damage/death for either in the frontal aspects or a quick snapshot as the higher, but too slow to move much bogey falls under the now stalling lower bogey, or the lower guy simply stalls too low and gets nailed.  Of course, as we know, this can result in collisions as both are fairly slow and less manueverable, especially the planes we were in (not the best of roll rate).

If none of *those* shots are taken, or missed, then ususally the guy who started out on top is now at the momentary disadvantage, but with speed to convert to continued acm... or in the case of less experienced players... a diveout and run.

I've made a career of killing pure ropers and bnz'rs, starting in AW3 on Gamestorm... in fact this is where I obtained most of my defensive to offensive experience and style... and... timing.

i'll try and find a film that clearly demonstrates this.

[grizz441]

turned more into you, held it up and scooted off the shot much closer in and made the flip then, right back on your tail with you having initially more speed as ur going down, but i'd have the advantage of being above you and able to react to your next move... more than likely at that point it'd evolve into more of a rolling scissors... which is where you need the work on, no?     

we already both know the lala can climb like a raped ape, and the 38 can float like an angel... in that roping situation, it becomes who stalls out first, and then it's either a damage/death for either in the frontal aspects or a quick snapshot as the higher, but too slow to move much bogey falls under the now stalling lower bogey, or the lower guy simply stalls too low and gets nailed.  Of course, as we know, this can result in collisions as both are fairly slow and less manueverable, especially the planes we were in (not the best of roll rate).

If none of *those* shots are taken, or missed, then ususally the guy who started out on top is now at the momentary disadvantage, but with speed to convert to continued acm... or in the case of less experienced players... a diveout and run.

I've made a career of killing pure ropers and bnz'rs, starting in AW3 on Gamestorm... in fact this is where I obtained most of my defensive to offensive experience and style... and... timing.

i'll try and find a film that clearly demonstrates this.

Nice description.  So wait, why didn't you turn more into me and do this?  This is still going swoosh, right over my head 

<edit> Because of the possibility of a ram?  Meh, I think you need to play your A game and if a ram happens, it's the nature of the beast.