Buff Guns are Fine

[StSanta]

Apache:

It seems buff toughness has increased, but I haven't heard anything about changing German cannons (except the 30mm, it was modified, so as to not penetrate armor).

But it is amusing; comparing C hog drivers assist rate to the assist rate of 109G10 drivers  

Torque:
Kills of Fighters 340
Fighter assist 27
Kills/assists: 12.6


StSanta
Kills of Fighters 168
Fighter assist 45
Kills/assists: 3.7

 

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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime

[Trell]

If you have ever seen torque fly you would know y he has soo few assists.  its not the guns its the pilot.

Trell

[funked]

Assists just mean you are gangbanging.  

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Trell:
If you have ever seen torque fly you would know y he has soo few assists.  its not the guns its the pilot.

Trell

I am quite sure that the hispanos help quite a bit too...

But I agree. Torque is a damned good pilot  

[SC-GreyBeard]

Back to the buff guns if we may..

I agree.. buff guns are fine..

think how'd you be screaming if it was full "otto" comparable to the aaa on a field..

as it is,, at most you'll only ever have 3 gun positions firing at ya,, and it takes a bit of time to change from one turret to another, then the time to aquire target from same.. if they was "otto" you'd have no delay...

Before I hear the "3 gun positions??" whine.. yes.. 3 gun positions...
if you're doing a dead 6 attack, at MOST you have upper and tail or Lower and tail..  not Both upper and lower.... depends on what plane your attacking from..
(yes as you cross from above to below the other turret starts firing but they don't, (upper and lower) fire at same time).

If your coming in from the rear sides, then the 1 waist gun joins....

so at most you'll  have 5 50's firing at ya..



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GreyBeard, Squadron Leader
Commander, "E" Flight, Aces High
Senior Staff Council
"The Skeleton Crew"
"Fly with Honor"[/i]
"Keepin' the Faith"

[StSanta]

Well, I feel almighty in a B17, especially when the normal skill pilots attack me.

I usually get 3 kills before I die. And I start firing at d1.4 and know I can hit and kill from that range.

Buffs? I don't attack those unless there are other friendlies doing the same nearby.

G10 can spend all its ammo on a buff and still not make it even smoke. "Aim for the wingtime" is the answer, but not a good one - at near compression speed (to avoid laser beams), it's pretty damned hard to hit the 17, let alone the wingtips  .

But they die. Not a big problem to me.



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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime

[CavemanJ]

sometimes this debate gets almost funny.
I've been flying a 4gun pony for the past 2 days to break a slump I've had in the 38 (and working damn well too   )
Last night I dove in on a B17 from his High 2o'clock, no friendlies around, he opens up at 1.1k (my FE, prolly 1.5k his) and keep boring in. 600yds out I rock the wings a hair and nudge the rudder and rake him from nose to tail, passing maybe 10ft under the fuselage and pull up into a gentle right turn to setup for a second pass.  I look back to aquire the target and see pieces falling, look to the buffer and there's the kill.

Now, if a lone, rookie, pony pilot flying an "undergunned" pony can take'em down, why can't some of you experten  

Not too long I had a sortie where I wiped out 3 17s inside of 5min, all with low frontal attacks pulling up into them and raking them nose to tail (this was after the current buff guns were set).  Was flying a P38, used the 20mm on 3 fighters and the first 17, the last 2 were taken with only .50s, back to back, with a loops (zoom into first, kill it, over the top and back up into second, kill it).  This sortie is the reason I wished all sorties were filmed and given the option to delete/save at the end of the sortie.  I had forgotten to turn on the recorder  

[sourkraut]

RAM's stats since the beginning of Tour 3 :
2 Kills / 1 Deaths in B17/B26

94 Kills / 24 Deaths vs. B17/B26

RAM, before you complain about turbolaser buffs you should spend more time in them.
I would take your stats against buffs any day.  

------------------
Sour
JG-2 Richthofen

"Hey - someone has to be the target...."

 

[This message has been edited by sourkraut (edited 08-23-2000).]

[Zigrat]

said it before, and ill say it agaiun:


i have no prob with buff lethality unless they are above 25k alt. or 20k alt in the case of b26.

Show me how to kill a well flown b26 at 20k. Ask jihad to fly the b26 and see if you can kill him without dying too

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by sourkraut:
RAM's stats since the beginning of Tour 3 :
2 Kills / 1 Deaths in B17/B26

94 Kills / 24 Deaths vs. B17/B26

RAM, before you complain about turbolaser buffs you should spend more time in them.
I would take your stats against buffs any day.    

I have buffed sometimes. Last time was 2 tours ago on a long way mission to bish HQ, the last big mission I flew with JG2.

I find buffing boring. For some people might seem fun, a lot of people fly them for the score. I dont fly them because I dont like. Period. And I wont buff to prove that their gunnery is that of a turbolaser. I dont fly planes to prove anything.
(BTW one of those 2 kills was at 1.2K,and I killed one F4U1-C at 1.4K when gunning for someone ,back in v1.1   )


You want my stats on Buffs?...well then do one of these 4 things:

1-never attack a buff unless:
a) you are in cooperation with friedlies
b) you have 5-10K of alt advantage.

2-If you fail to do the thing avobe then,at least, try to do a hi 1 or 11 pass firing all your artillery. most times they will kill you but if you are lucky he will be also mortally wounded. Keep on the cockpit until he bails or dies. This way you get his kill but he doesnt get yours, and in the stats seems you are better buffer killer.  

3-Vulch ackstarring B17s on the runway before they can fire their guns. (once I killed the same guy in the same spot 8 times in a row).

4-If you fail to do 1-2-3, fly away and let the buff go ahead.  


Realistic way isnt it?

LOL!


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-23-2000).]

[GrinBird]

Yup RAM the only reason why the stats saythat so many B17s gets killed, is that they are killed during takeoff while taking off from bases they try to defend. Listen to that guys! - B17s take off to defend their bases????

I find it very hard to understand why ppl who normally require a high standard of realism can accept this kind of arcadism the bombers represents.
Bombing in AH is moving a crosshair over a spot on the map, click the right time and you hit a 1*1 yard area from 10K, any first timer rookie can do that. Shooting fighters from a bomber is the same, - just move a crosshair on the screen, even a complete rookie right from halflife can start racking up fighter kills from the first day in main arena.
If you wanna learn accurate divebombing in a fighter (from the state of beeing a complete rookie without sim experience at all) it would take months of hard training. Even more if you wanted to kill another figher from a fighter.

Why is it so needed to make B17s and B26s so easy compared to fighters???

[This message has been edited by GrinBird (edited 08-23-2000).]

[RAM]

Ballance Grinbird...ballance  

Laughable isnt it?  

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by GrinBird:
Yup RAM the only reason why the stats saythat so many B17s gets killed, is that they are killed during takeoff while taking off from bases they try to defend. Listen to that guys! - B17s take off to defend their bases????

I find it very hard to understand why ppl who normally require a high standard of realism can accept this kind of arcadism the bombers represents.
Bombing in AH is moving a crosshair over a spot on the map, click the right time and you hit a 1*1 yard area from 10K, any first timer rookie can do that. Shooting fighters from a bomber is the same, - just move a crosshair on the screen, even a complete rookie right from halflife can start racking up fighter kills from the first day in main arena.
If you wanna learn accurate divebombing in a fighter (from the state of beeing a complete rookie without sim experience at all) it would take months of hard training. Even more if you wanted to kill another figher from a fighter.

Why is it so needed to make B17s and B26s so easy compared to fighters???

[This message has been edited by GrinBird (edited 08-23-2000).]

By the same logic, killing a fighter with a figher is easy. Just move a cross hair onto a another plane. Boom.

Wow  

So much for lead, tracking, delflection, all that good stuff because all we are doing is manipulating an input device to move a  point to a part of a plane and firing.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Yes Ram, buff pilots fly for pure score. Ayup. Their sole purpose is to piss off every luftwobble faction member they can with their turbo lazers.

Ban the buff! It serves no purpose! Ban the C-47 too! It just pads scores!

</dweeb mode>

Buff are fine to me. Until there is some way to have mass drone formations following a lead buff to carpet bomb bases with plenty of coverfire they work just fine.

Sure the guns are strong, but why the hell not? People squeak if they go over a figher's head. Weaker guns would make them damn near as vulnerable as C-47's. They die easy enough as it is. Would you rather have to shoot down a combat box of bombers? I sure as hell wouldn't but hey, "THAT'S historical!"

So...either come up with a solution better then the one we already have or STFU  

- Jig

[GrinBird]

Jig... you dont answer my questions, and as if you were a skilled politician you avoid to attack my main point.
I know that there is skilled simpilots who fly bombers, it wasnt my meaning to step on their toes. I just want to get a simple answer to my two simple questions:
1) Why can realism-demanding simpilots accept an arcadish and non-historic modelling of the bombers? - Something they would never accept for the fighters.
2) Why is it so important to make it so easy to kill fighters from bombers, - so it isnt needed to fly in formation have escort etc?

And btw Jig.. B17s were never used for carpetbombing of airbases. They were simply not accurate enuf for that. Even a full formation on B17s wouldent hit a base hard enuf to justify the attack. Airbases were attacked by fighers and fighterbombers like Tiffies and Mosquitoes.

And the C47... why model that out of the game? The C47 in AH does the same job as it did in WW2, and its important for gameplay. It is not boosted in anyway, you cant just move a crosshair and drop the troops accurate fron high Altitude. - And the 10 troops are not firing out of peepholes and hitting everything that moves on 1.2 K´s distance.

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by GrinBird:
Jig... you dont answer my questions, and as if you were a skilled politician you avoid to attack my main point.
I know that there is skilled simpilots who fly bombers, it wasnt my meaning to step on their toes. I just want to get a simple answer to my two simple questions:
1) Why can realism-demanding simpilots accept an arcadish and non-historic modelling of the bombers? - Something they would never accept for the fighters.
2) Why is it so important to make it so easy to kill fighters from bombers, - so it isnt needed to fly in formation have escort etc?

And btw Jig.. B17s were never used for carpetbombing of airbases. They were simply not accurate enuf for that. Even a full formation on B17s wouldent hit a base hard enuf to justify the attack. Airbases were attacked by fighers and fighterbombers like Tiffies and Mosquitoes.

And the C47... why model that out of the game? The C47 in AH does the same job as it did in WW2, and its important for gameplay. It is not boosted in anyway, you cant just move a crosshair and drop the troops accurate fron high Altitude. - And the 10 troops are not firing out of peepholes and hitting everything that moves on 1.2 K´s distance.

somebody get the net! I caught one!

Adaptation to the game silly.

Until you see full combat boxes of bombers don't expect the guns to change. It's a good compromise to fill in for historical defense.

And buff's didn't normally whack air bases because it was a futile effort. Even with direct hits a new base could be constructed in days, and given allied bomber losses to flak and fighters, quite a loss of man power for a weak target.

and incase you haven't firgured it out I was joking about the C-47  

defending one issue of gameplay, but not another? tsk tsk.

- Jig
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Even sarcasim tags are ignored these days.