O Great German Iron Gods, I seek your wisdom

[halo342]

I am currently looking to learn the 190 series. Is there any wisdom you are willing to share?

[trotter]

Fly the 190 like you are fighting on the inside of a drinking straw. Up and down. Start maneuvering too much in the horizontal and you're going to punch through the straw, and your drink (in this case your engine oil, radiator, and much of your control surface) will soon be spilled out all over the green ground.

[Thias]

That is a really funny analogy! One of the better ones I've read.

Perhaps not just up/down but round and round too. The FW is great at rolling "inside of the straw". How is this applicable in a fight? Look up rolling scissors and overshoots.

[humble]

If its in front of you....shoot it. If its not in front of you keep going till you find something in front of you and shoot it.

The 190 is not an easy plane to learn. It requires the use of the vertical and out of plane lead turns to be effective. While the A5 can be used in an E fighting type of "T&B" any attempts at sustained "dogfighting" is normally fatal. Basically its a hit and run predator...

[moot]

I am currently looking to learn the 190 series. Is there any wisdom you are willing to share?

Always be smooth and reduce your reaction time as much as you can...

I can help you out in person come ~mid february or so, if you're still looking to improve.

[BnZs]

reduce your reaction time as much as you can...

Sounds interesting, explain. I assume you don't literally mean to re-wire your brain to make the signals travel faster. 

[Thias]

He does though.
What do you think he was doing in Madagascar for so long?
Practicing surgery on the natives...

[BaldEagl]

Here, from a prior post of mine (slightly modified):

The 190's have literally NO advantages over any other ac in the game other than roll rate (plus guns in the A8 and speed in the Dora).  It requires very strong SA, good knowledge of ACM's and strong E management skills to stay alive.  You can't just yank and bank in a 190.  Many ACM's are not even feasable given energy states.

Pick your 190 to suit your mission:

190A-5 - Best turner of the group, lightest and most nimble and packs a punch if you load out all 4 cannons although the outboard MGFF's are poor ballistically and many will suggest leaving them in the hanger.

190A-8 - Heaviest of the group but packs the biggest punch with 2x30mm, 2x20mm cannons and 2x13mm machine guns.  Great for buff hunting and a decent fighter.

190D-9 - Fastest of the group.  Among the fastest in the arena.  Purely a B'n'Zer.  Lightest gun package with only 2x20mm cannons plus machine guns but they are plenty for taking out fighters.

190F-8 - Best ground attack fighter in the group.  Performance is similar to the A-8 so it makes a decent fighter as well.

Ta-152H - Slowest of the group at low to mid alts but among the fastest in the arenas over 20K.  1x30mm plus 2x20mm make it a good high alt hunter.  Max dive speed is ~100 mph lower than the other 190's but it will glide forever (which is good as the radiator is prone to damage).

Common charachteristics:  Great dive speed (500 ias+) without compression, poor climb rates but zoom climb is good, best roll rates of any plane, poor turn rates but can change direction quickly by using roll rate with gentle turns.  The A8 and F8 carry an extra auxilery gas tank not included in the others which extends range.  Adding drop tanks adds a rack that remains once the tank is jettisoned resulting in as much as an 8 mph loss.

How to fight:  Start fast, preferably with alt.  Look to B'n'Z.  You can turn to get shots but do not turn more than about 540 degrees total during your engagement and pull gently on the stick when doing so (low-G turns).  If you come in behind someone there is almost no escape for them as you can change direction quickly using the roll rate to adjust for a snapshot.  Never let the stall buzzer sound.  Once you've turned the maximum amount (about 540 degrees of flat turning) exit in a zoom climb for alt then repeat.  You need ~3-3.5K seperation to reverse on someone chasing you unless it's in a vertical reversal (see below).  Use nose low turns (split-s/low yo-yo, etc.) whenever possible to conserve speed.  In general, avoid looping manouvers however, If the 190 has enough speed to use a vertical reversal (pull up, roll 180 degrees then pull down) you'll have at least one good shot opportunity on the bogie below you and, even if that just gets the bogies attention you may get a second opportunity in a subsequent move.

Best defenses:  Speed.  Use your roll rate to keep pursuing opponents out of plane.  Lacking speed use a flat or rolling scissors to try and force an overshoot.  Rolling scissors are trickier as the 190's will simply spin around their horizontal axis so you'll need to add some rudder input to gain the offset roll.

IMHO one of the 190's are one of the best familys of fighters in the game if you get to know them.  The A-8 is my personal favorite among them and is consistantly my best plane in terms of K/D (10+).

[moot]

Sounds interesting, explain. I assume you don't literally mean to re-wire your brain to make the signals travel faster. 

The 190s are at their best above most other planes' 'best speed', so you have to take the best habits possible to exploit that flight regime as well as you can.

If you've ever sat down thru a drag racing day with enough different classes, you'll have noticed that a 1 second gap between a pair of ~15 second cars equates to a much smaller gap in distance than a 1 second gap between two ~9 second cars. In dogfighting, this translates into winning or losing angles a lot faster in a high speed dogfight than a slower paced one. Half a second in a nearly stalled out fight is pretty long, but most of the time won't decide the fight. In a fast fight though, it can make or break your fight. So reducing your reaction time is a very simple way to improve your fighting without any actual ACM improvements. It's like improving your plane itself.

It's pretty useful in the 190 in particular, because while the 190s dont turn with the best in sustained circles, their instantaneous turn rate is competitive (dont remember the exact proportions/figures) and the fast roll rate effectively improves that same turn rate, because the 190 is already banked and grabbing angles while some other planes are still in the process of banking. 
What you actualy do (ACM) with that brisk responsiveness is another story, but this is (off the top of my head) always a bonus.

BaldEagl's summary is good but omits one aspect of the 152: It's the most stable of the 190s near departure (until it totaly wigs out under certain circumstances). I think it might also be the best turning one.. According to Mosq's data, it is 30 feet larger in turn radius at full flaps, but slightly beats it in degrees per second. Without flaps it's nearly tied with the A5 as tightest turning 190, and beats it in degrees per second by a little bit (although the 2-gun loadout is missing from the no-flaps trials).
And you would leave the A5's MGFFs off also because of how little ammo they carry.

[BaldEagl]

I don't think it's so much improving your reaction time as it is improving your response time.

As I said, if you're coming in behind an opponent there is almost no escape for them.  As soon as you see them start to roll off to one side you can beat them through the roll and be positioned inside them for the snapshot.  You're using the 190's near instantaneous rotation in lift vector to "turn" inside them.  While this may seem like an improvement in your reaction time the plane is really doing the work as it's response time is so much faster than anything else relative to lift vector rotation.

[moot]

What difference do you mean by reaction time vs response time?
Point blank and within killshot ranges are good examples, but there's even more to gain when you cut down on reaction time (your own, e.g. how long you take to decide what to do, and do it) from longer distances.

[BaldEagl]

What difference do you mean by reaction time vs response time?

Reaction time is what I do (i.e. the time it takes for my brain to process inputs and react).  Response time is what the ac does (i.e roll rate in this case).

[moot]

Both reaction and response time was what I meant. Cutting down on both pays off especialy well in the 190s.

[Krusty]

Slight correction to the summary listed way up there.


The F-8 is by FAR the heaviest 190 in the game, bar all (including the A-8) [EDIT: Not counting the 152 -- that's a different category I don't often lump with 190s in terms of how to fly]. It has over 1000lbs of additional armor, as it is a ground attack variant. This means higher wing loading, faster stalling, and worse dogfighting performance as compared to the other models. I would not suggest taking it at all.

On the other hand, it has almost NEVER lost engine oil due to enemy fire while I've flown it (1000lbs of additional armor, remember?)

[BaldEagl]

Slight correction to the summary listed way up there.


The F-8 is by FAR the heaviest 190 in the game, bar all (including the A-8) [EDIT: Not counting the 152 -- that's a different category I don't often lump with 190s in terms of how to fly]. It has over 1000lbs of additional armor, as it is a ground attack variant. This means higher wing loading, faster stalling, and worse dogfighting performance as compared to the other models. I would not suggest taking it at all.

On the other hand, it has almost NEVER lost engine oil due to enemy fire while I've flown it (1000lbs of additional armor, remember?)

Check Doc Gonzo's.  Performance between the A8 and F8 is identical in all categories.  I've never noticed a difference between them but I always carry the 2x30mm gun package in the A8 and full fuel in both.

The F8 is an excellent ground attack aircraft so if that's what you want to do it's definitly worth taking up.  The rockets are armor piercing and quite deadly.  My best sortie in the F8 with full rocket rails and a bomb loaded is 6 clean kills on heavy armor without re-arming.  There's very few planes in AH capable of that.