Author Topic: • Rook [MoM #4] "Fervent Fury" - January 13, 2009 •  (Read 4823 times)

Offline swareiam

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Re: • Rook [MoM #4] "Fervent Fury" - January 13, 2009 •
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2009, 10:01:50 AM »

How many of you guys from the 154th landed with or without kills. Outstanding escort job by the way...

I know that ProductX, Fearles, and myself were feet dry for landing with two minutes of fuel remaining.

How did you guys make out?
AKWarHwk of the Arabian Knights
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Offline Slate

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Re: • Rook [MoM #4] "Fervent Fury" - January 13, 2009 •
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2009, 10:12:10 AM »
  The Bomber Group at the Rear was totally without escort and I doubt any made it to target. Perhaps we were held on runway too long or mis-communication but we were left behind to perish. We took a few fighters down with us and hopefully all the crews were able to bail as I was able to. Still was great fun and intense to be part of a large mission like that.  :aok  What happened to the Escorts is my only question and did they abandon thier duty of protection to chase kills.  :(
I always wanted to fight an impossible battle against incredible odds.

Offline 96Delta

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Re: • Rook [MoM #4] "Fervent Fury" - January 13, 2009 •
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2009, 11:23:28 AM »
  The Bomber Group at the Rear was totally without escort and I doubt any made it to target. Perhaps we were held on runway too long or mis-communication but we were left behind to perish. We took a few fighters down with us and hopefully all the crews were able to bail as I was able to. Still was great fun and intense to be part of a large mission like that.  :aok  What happened to the Escorts is my only question and did they abandon thier duty of protection to chase kills.  :(

The problem with bombers not being integrated into the
group is, more often than not, because they don't heed
prelaunch instructions or are AFK when they are given.

Also, some pilots launch bombers in their favorite skin outside
of the mission editor.  This can also pose a problem because
their loadout may not be the same as the mission group.

I have run many, many bomber missions.  If pilots raise their
flaps before takeoff and roll when the order is given, they
almost always stay in tight formation.  When pilots miss these
cues, or they start to navigate aggressively, they always fall
behind.  Please remember, when launching a formatiion in bombers,
the joystick is your enemy.

Last night's bomber launch directions allowed them to maintain
their launch runway heading for the majority of the first leg
of the mission.  This was done to facilitate a tight formation
because the entire group could then just launch and auto-climb,
without having to touch their joystick until reaching the rally point.

After reaching the rally point and merging, the lead group should have
throttled back to allow the rest of the squadrons to group up on
the lead.  I don't know if that happened as I was in a fighter this time out.

The only time I would attribute bad formations to the bomb group
commanders is when they (1) launch before the entire group has spawned,
(2) if they do not call the launch "by the numbers", or (3) if the formation lead
does not throttle back upon reaching combat altitude to allow stragglers
to catch up.  Other than that, its almost always pilot error.

Fighter escorts are always tasked to stay with the main body as they
will attract the majority of the enemy's attention.  Stragglers are
indeed on their own until they can catch up to the main bomber group.
There is safety in the pack.

Stragglers should inform the group lead that they are falling behind
and if the bomb group has not yet reached combat altitude, stragglers should
level to close the distance.  Even if you are lower than the group when
they are engaged, you will still have the benefit of the fighter escorts
being close by.

I don't know if any of this applied to your situation but I'm putting it out
there for everyone to digest.  Flying bombers in formation isn't as easy
as flying a fighter.    Pilots need to keep their heads in the game and pay
attention to course and speed changes.  If they miss even one of these cues,
they will invariably find themselves outside of the flock being pounced
on by ravenous wolves!

All that said, bomber lead is by far the most complex job.  They have to always be
mindful of the state of their formations and must adjust speed and navigation
to insure the tightest formation possible before meeting resistance.  If they
fail to make those adjustments, the bomber force will look like a flock of
pigeons instead of a death star in the sky.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 11:36:49 AM by 96Delta »

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Offline swareiam

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Re: • Rook [MoM #4] "Fervent Fury" - January 13, 2009 •
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2009, 11:32:26 AM »
  The Bomber Group at the Rear was totally without escort and I doubt any made it to target. Perhaps we were held on runway too long or mis-communication but we were left behind to perish. We took a few fighters down with us and hopefully all the crews were able to bail as I was able to. Still was great fun and intense to be part of a large mission like that.  :aok  What happened to the Escorts is my only question and did they abandon thier duty of protection to chase kills.  :(

Slate,

Sorry you guys had a run of bad coverage or luck. The 154th launched out first and headed over the channel. We arrived over A173 as planned. Our target altitude was 30k which we achieved nicely in the P-51B without WEP. Our primary mission was to report numbers, types and altitudes of incoming interceptors over the target area. Our secondary mission was to get as many interceptors as possible to follow us into an ambush hosted by the 82nd FG. But when that plan did not materialize, we turned back to the NE just in time to meet the Main Force of bombers @ approximate coordinates 8, 3, 6 adjacent to V166. Just about the time that we paralleled the bombers to begin escort operations, between 28 and 31k, the interceptors started making their approaches into the main force.

My hat is off to the twelve P-51Bs of the 154th TRS that escorted the main force of bombers into the primary target. That was an OUTSTANDING piece of work! We arrived with minimal loses to the main force and many of us RTB successfully on near empty fuel tanks.

Kudos goes out to the bomber skippers and their commanders for keeping the tight formations which made the escort job much easier.

A hardy thanks also goes out to the 82nd and 325th FGs for great coordination and coverage of the main force into the target area. <S>

All in All, it was a great bit of aerial combat immersion. Thanks to everyone that showed up. I had a great time. See you guys for the next installment.

Again, nice job 96Delta...

<S>
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 11:34:57 AM by swareiam »
AKWarHwk of the Arabian Knights
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Don't let your ego get too close to your position, so that if your position gets shot down, your ego doesn't go with it. General Colin Powell

Offline Slate

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Re: • Rook [MoM #4] "Fervent Fury" - January 13, 2009 •
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2009, 11:44:49 AM »
 96Delta does run some good missions and this one was fun. I do believe it was our flights' commander who perhaps held us too long to meet up with the main force. We leveled out at 20k and were tight until attacked by 262's and p-51's. Our leader went down early and I was within 500 of him. No fighter escort was assigned to our force or told to help us at the Rear and I guess we were on our own and the main force took priority. Still I look forward to the next mission. :aok
I always wanted to fight an impossible battle against incredible odds.

Offline B4Buster

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Re: • Rook [MoM #4] "Fervent Fury" - January 13, 2009 •
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2009, 03:43:01 PM »
I was in a group flying TA-152's we blew right through the fighters in one sector to get to the bombers in another sector.

That was Hajo, rob53, Night5, Bruin, Delirium, and I

Hajo set us up perfectly, but we weren't too effective I think I might have scratched a 24's paint job though  :lol
Night5 had a nice run though, he landed 5 if I remember right. Wasn't about killing stuff though, Things like this is what makes AH IMO, it was real cool to see the huge stream of bombers off in the distance.

 :aok 96Delta and other guys who set this up, you did a good job
"I was a door gunner on the space shuttle Columbia" - Scott12B

Offline ghi

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Re: • Rook [MoM #4] "Fervent Fury" - January 13, 2009 •
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2009, 05:32:25 PM »
Slate,

 Our primary mission was to report numbers, types and altitudes of incoming interceptors over the target area. Our secondary mission was to get as many interceptors as possible to follow us into an ambush hosted by the 82nd FG. But when that plan did not materialize,
<S>


 I noticed a  big darbar moving fast west, 2-3 sectors ahead of main pack darbar , i believe was your fighter group, was logic the buffs are not there,  we didn't bait the hook, but after few min we got reports about bomber position. That's why ,we launched 3 sectors north of port heading east towards main darbar and hit the bombers  with a modest cocktail of aprox. 15  fighters (262s,K-4,P51,P47N,F4u-4,ta152). At the time when mission started were 250 rooks ,(maybe 100 in mission ) vs 170 bish online,spread all over the map.
If we could scramble 15-20 more fighters for the first punch ,when we found the bombers @20-22k and spread out  , none would have make it to tgt, but we did well considering the #s. Imop,the fighter escort was eficient,  i was lucky to make it back alive.
Was fun, great mission , should make them more often!
<S>Delta :salute
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 05:38:11 PM by ghi »

Offline macerxgp

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Re: • Rook [MoM #4] "Fervent Fury" - January 13, 2009 •
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2009, 10:10:50 PM »
DeMaskus- 357th DeathDragons, flying North American P-51D for 82nd Fighter Group.

As opposed to the other bombing MoM missions I had attended, I saw SIGNIFICANT action.

Approx. 10 minutes after launch at 28k, the 82nd encountered a small number of P-47N scouts. The 82nd vectored to engage once the order was given, and At least two out of all three P-47's were dispatched. The FG continued west heading to the rally point, until we received orders to vector due north to intercept incoming fighters. The 82nd promptly turned northward and after approx. 2 minutes, we encountered at least 14 enemy jets in the first discernible wave,  followed closely by the enemy piston fighters, surprisingly mostly P-51D's, P-47N's, and few Axis planes.  I attempted to select a target and engage, however my P-51 felt unusually sluggish, even at 400MPH airspeed. I quickly attacked an enemy fighter, scoring few hits if any.

I quickly vectored back towards the bombers, evading Typhoons and P-47's. As I began to patrol the bomb group, I called out targets to the other interceptors, not feeling quite capable of maneuvering with them. After taking potshots at the incoming jets, I was hit badly by a typhoon at my six. As luck would have it, the only damage was to the ti of the right wing and it's flap. Still flyable, though totally unsuitable for combat, I stuck with the bomber formation as best I could for the duration of the mission, my stick jammed against the left edge the whole flight. As I broke with minutes of fuel, I dropped quickly from 30k to less than 15k. As luck would have it, I passed over an airfield where an enemy jet was in final approach. I knew I wouldn't get another shot like this, so I plunged the stick forward and trained my guns on it, and sprayed, hoping to take a pair of Jumo 004D's with me into the dirt. I didn't get the kill.



Another fabulous job, delta. Just wish I had been that the top of my game (or had chosen a P-47, that pony would NOT turn!)
Quote from: Saurdaukar
Operational kettles in August 2009 exceed operational pots by approximately 142%.

Your comparison is invalid.

DeMaskus
357th-Death Dragons

Offline 96Delta

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Re: • Rook [MoM #4] "Fervent Fury" - January 13, 2009 •
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2009, 10:39:47 PM »
ghi,

I would but some of these missions, especially the bomber
ones, take a lot to put together.  The planning thread
for this mission on our forum was up to 9 pages last
time I looked.  Alot of people put in tons of time and
effort to get us performance data, pre-strike maps
and other contributions.

Along those lines, I'd like to take a minute to recognize the
special efforts of Hornet79 (LCA) and 2Slow (Sky Knights)
for their research and planning efforts.  These guys spent hours
and hours working on time trials and other data & did a
marvelous job of assisting in the planning & design of the
bomber aspect of the mission.   Unfortunately, neither
were available on Tuesday night so they missed the
very mission they contributed so much to.  I offer
a hearty :salute to each of them for a job well done!  :rock

By the power invested in me by the president of ROOKLAND
and the Commanding General, ROOK Air Forces,
I hereby present them each the MoM4 Rook Participant ribbon
with "Planner" device attached.
Well done. ;)



[MoM4] Rook Participation Ribbon
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 11:19:35 PM by 96Delta »

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Offline 96Delta

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Re: • Rook [MoM #4] "Fervent Fury" - January 13, 2009 •
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2009, 10:45:42 PM »
DeMaskus,

Great AAR sir!  You had me smiling and laughing as I read it! :lol
Too bad you didn't get that 262 kill.  Would have been a fine topper
for your experience.

I have to say that I was very disappointed that we saw so many
allied fighters opposing us.  The idea was to make these missions
somewhat historical so we could enjoy a historically immersive
experience.  Sadly, many Bishops didn't appreciate that aspect
of the event.  As an aside though, the Knights have been quite good
at deployinmg Axis aircraft against us so maybe things will improve
for the Bishops as they participate in more MoM events.

Hey, I can hope can't I?  :P

BTW, Anyone have any screencaps?

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Offline HighTone

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Re: • Rook [MoM #4] "Fervent Fury" - January 13, 2009 •
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2009, 10:58:24 PM »
Despite the 14FG being short on pilots, I thought the 38's did a good job at being where we needed to be when the 262's came in. The 14FG had five planes on take off, but shortly after that was down to four. So as far as an effective fighting force is concerned we failed. But other than the numbers part, we were successful. We didn't stray too far, and we keep our small unit close. We lost 2 P-38's fighting the 262's and 190 shortly before we hit the channel. Madhorus and I made a dash for the bombers as they were over the channel. Just before we caught up to the bombers, we caught sight of a 190, 51, and F4u that were trailing us. I caught a round in the radiator and lost and engine. I lost sight of Madhorus. After my engine quit, I was shot down by a P-47. I was able to take off and catch up to the remaining bombers after they hit the second target. There was plenty of action on the way home. Multiple 109's, 47's, 51's, and 190's. I was able to see these bombers land
<S> Xdan
<S> Wayne81
<S> WarE (don't know if that's spelled right)

Also a <S> to the other 38 pilots. Madhorus, Kewblue, and Cactus.

Over all the MoM was allot of fun  :aok

LCA Special Events CO     LCA ~Tainan Kokutai~       
www.lcasquadron.org      Thanks for the Oscar HTC

Offline 96Delta

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Re: • Rook [MoM #4] "Fervent Fury" - January 13, 2009 •
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2009, 11:07:10 PM »
WTG HighTone!   :salute

The participation levels were a disappointment this
time around, especially with respect to the P-38
Lightning.  Additionally, other people were posting their own
missions when we were recruiting and attempting to
fill the MoM missions with pilots, further undermining
our strength.

The last MoM we had 106 pilots participating,
this one only attracted 78.  I hope this isn't
the start of a trend.   :frown:
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 11:10:39 PM by 96Delta »

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Offline swareiam

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Re: • Rook [MoM #4] "Fervent Fury" - January 13, 2009 •
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2009, 08:49:24 AM »
That's why ,we launched 3 sectors north of port heading east towards main darbar and hit the bombers  with a modest cocktail of aprox. 15  fighters (262s,K-4,P51,P47N,F4u-4,ta152).

ghi,

Thanks for making our escort job much easier. We do appreciate your efforts. It's funny in MoM 3 you guys came head on...Hmmm Ooops, that was the Knights. But, I can understand it was difficult to tell what the target was since we showed up there first. To my understanding the first target was completely wiped out with more than half of the main force arriving over the target. I say that's a good days work, wouldn't you? :D  :salute
 
Cheers...

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Don't let your ego get too close to your position, so that if your position gets shot down, your ego doesn't go with it. General Colin Powell

Offline GGhost

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Re: • Rook [MoM #4] "Fervent Fury" - January 13, 2009 •
« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2009, 11:37:40 AM »
MoM 4 - AAR - "Fervent Fury"

79th FIGHTER GROUP

DATE: JAN 13, 2009
ARENA: TITANIC TUESDAY
DEPARTURE FIELD: A138
RETURN FIELD: A165 
MISSION TARGET: ENEMY FACTORIES
PILOTS: 9 TOTAL
RETURNING HOME: 4 TOTAL
FALLEN FRIENDS: 5 TOTAL
EQUIP. USED: B24 BOMBERS



SORTIE 1 - 
The 79th FG worked to keep our pilots close together. We did have some new pilots to (MoM) mission go astray, but we quickly would do a slight bank and would call out to them to regroup with the main force. Which they quickly returned to the group. We tried to give the bomber formation a layer method and would work together at keep up with the speed of the group and helping our fellow pilots out. I notice that the main bomber force was not keeping together, while the enemy bandits (ME262, 190, P51 and P47) where making there way in the bomber force. Allot of bombers were getting separated from the main group. So allot of fighters must of either got shot down. Or the enemy just hammered down and blew by the escorts. I guess they could of got down to low in a chase and couldn't regain altitude with the main bomber force. Most of the bomber force regained formation and held it together after the first few enemy got into the force. This took the edge off of everyone being trigger finger happiness. everyone settled in for the long flight and fight. 

The enemy bandits were met with a over whelming blow of lead being shot at them. It was just a matter of seconds before another bandit was smoking down towards the ground. Some did manager to hit their target bomber and took some of the drones down quickly. But everyone of the Rooks were working together. The check 6's were called out and if a enemy would slip into the main bomber force. All members made everyone aware of the situation. The main group had some losses and we still manage to get to the target as projected. All the 79th FG pilots made there pass on the first target before 4 pilots of the 79th FG met the silk chute. 1 Pilot was lost at sea and went down while making his flight back home. 4 out of the 9 pilots made there way back home across the water to air base (A165).
The pilot lost at sea was recovered by the U.S.S. Enterprise task force.

I would say that MoM 4 was a over all successful!
Great fun flying with everyone! See you all at the next one <S>

GGHOST, BG, USAAF
79TH FIGHTER GROUP (CO)

« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 12:07:18 PM by GGhost »
Currently not flying

Offline ghi

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Re: • Rook [MoM #4] "Fervent Fury" - January 13, 2009 •
« Reply #59 on: January 15, 2009, 12:15:56 PM »
.

I have to say that I was very disappointed that we saw so many
allied fighters opposing us.  The idea was to make these missions
somewhat historical so we could enjoy a historically immersive
experience. 

   Historically ,your heavy loaded  box formation shouldn't run faster than 180mph , if you want to  see  butcher birds and  110s escorted by 109s involved in interception. But as long as bombing precision is not affected by speed and alt and you can hit a panzer running loaded 300mph @ 30k , we can't talk about historical experience.
You are welcome to hit the HQ if you want to see only axis interceptors :devil