Help me understand something...

[bozon]

Even the Corsair *can* recover from a spin...ask William Kershner...though you wouldn't want to try it, especially close to the ground.

Why wouldn't you want to ask him this when close to the ground?

[BnZs]

 

Why wouldn't you want to ask him this when close to the ground?

[Karnak]

i found this::::::

Some World War II airplanes were notoriously prone to flat spins when loaded erroneously, such as the Bell P-39 Airacobra. The P-39 was a unique design with the engine behind the pilot's seat and a large cannon in the front. Without ammunition or a counterbalance load in the nose compartment, the P-39's center of gravity was too far aft to recover from a spin. Soviet pilots did numerous tests of the P-39 and were able to demonstrate its dangerous spinning characteristics. Bell then issued a recommendation to bail out if the airplane entered a spin. North American P-51 Mustangs with auxiliary fuel tanks not originally designed for the P-51 suffered from the same problem. Similarly, the Vought F4U Corsair was reputed to have appalling stall and spin recovery characteristics, even in the "clean" (no stores) configuration.



here:::::::

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_(flight)
On the other hand the RAE notes that the Spitfire Mk XIV (yes, the horrible handling Griffon Spit) had to be held in a spin or it came out of it on its own after three rotations.  I don't know if that is power on or off.

[Yarbles]

I fly spits all the time and kill more people than kill me. The 16 is easier to get kills in than the 9 but not by a huge margin. The best spit for me close in is the Seafire and I am increasingly chooseing this over the 16.

The Sixteen is light, has a grunty engine and was designed for fighting at lower alts which is where allot of the action is in ah. Get up high and run into 51's and it feels wheezy and outclassed. I have to say though more often than not you will still get results up high as the P51, P47 seem to have less idea how to fly there planes than even the spit newbs. Time and again the blow there E and end up down low. The battle shifts against them becuase they dont know how to use their advantages properly.

Ive also flown the other way particularly in Spit 14's and Ok Ill try to spiral climb and rope them and often there E state is greater than I think. This is just a likely to be a Nikki or a Zero as a spit 16 which all share similar lightweight characteristics.

If Krusty is all fired up about the Spit model I would advise him to fly it and film his extrodinary adventures. Im my opinion if we lost the 16 and 8 the 9 would get the flak. Spits are great planes to fly with excellent stall characteristics they are light because they are fragile, lack endurance and ammunition which doesnt matter to a furballer.

[thrila]

Before the spit XVI and VIII came along there were indeed posts demanding the perking of the uber UFO spit9.

[Anaxogoras]

Im my opinion if we lost the 16 and 8 the 9 would get the flak.

That's probably true, but it's irrelevant to the actual performance of these aircraft.  In terms of over-all performance stats, the SpitXVI is comparable to our perked aircraft, while the VIII and IX are not.  In fact, the XVI usually scores better than the C-Hog depending on what kind of modifiers I use for various factors.

[BaldEagl]

In terms of over-all performance stats, the SpitXVI is comparable to our perked aircraft, while the VIII and IX are not. 

The VIII and XVI share almost identical performance stats across the board.  The VIII gives up a little roll rate, swaps the 2x.50's for 4x.303's and adds an internal fuel tank.

[Anaxogoras]

The VIII and XVI share almost identical performance stats across the board.  The VIII gives up a little roll rate, swaps the 2x.50's for 4x.303's and adds an internal fuel tank.

Yes.  It is slightly faster, rolls significantly better, has better firepower, accelerates better level and in a dive, and can carry 1k lbs of ordinance (though you rarely see people take advantage of that and I weight ordinance minimally).

All those little advantages add up.

[BaldEagl]

Yes.  It is slightly faster, rolls significantly better, has better firepower, accelerates better level and in a dive, and can carry 1k lbs of ordinance (though you rarely see people take advantage of that and I weight ordinance minimally).

All those little advantages add up.

By the time you either add a sipper tank to the XVI or reduce internal fuel in the VIII those very slight XVI advantages are negated (except the roll rate advantage and the XIII's gun pacakge isn't significantly worse than the XVI's).

[Anaxogoras]

2 x 50cals is more than a 50% increase in firepower over 4 x 303s.  And you and I both know that the sipper tank is dropped before combat.

[BaldEagl]

And you and I both know that the sipper tank is dropped before combat.

I carry mine in the Spits even in a fight as long as it's still got fuel in it.

[Yarbles]

Before the spit XVI and VIII came along there were indeed posts demanding the perking of the uber UFO spit9.

Precisely. The spitfire "The best close in fighter of the lot" (Johnie Johnson the story of air fighting and top scoring WW2 british ace).

If you want to beat someone in a spit in something else you probably need to be a better fighter pilot than them and some or know how to boom and zoom. Be aware though as soon as you slip into co-e you will quickly be at a dissadvantage

Dont blame the spit if you are not up to the task  

Now if people want to complain about a plane its obviously the LA7.

1) Newbs can jump in and charge around without even looking behind them. Point and squirt.

2) In reality unreliable to the extreme and major inconsistencies in performance and build quality. What we have in the game is the best of the best la7.

So dont perk it though as once you know what you are doing its just an annoying inconvenience that keeps you looking over your shoulder but easy to defeat if you are paying attention. If you keep getting shot down by newbs in anything your either drunk or not as good as you think you are. I have no fear of the 16 in for example a 51 but I am carefull how I fight it. It amazes me when I am in a 16 how many people will fight you like they are in another 16 when they are in something like a 51 and then start crying when they get it from behind



 

[Anaxogoras]

I carry mine in the Spits even in a fight as long as it's still got fuel in it.

So should I test the Spitfires with external fuel tanks loaded but all other aircraft without them?

[BaldEagl]

So should I test the Spitfires with external fuel tanks loaded but all other aircraft without them?

Personally I could care less how you do your tests.  I was just pointing out that when the fuel loads become similar the very marginal advantages in speed, climb and acceleration that the XVI has over the VIII, and that you think in sum total equate to a significant advantage, largley dissapear. 

As to external fuel tanks I carry them on all of the Spit models and contrary to your assertation that they are always dropped once engaged, I mentioned that I don't drop mine.  As far as external fuel tanks go they are relatively clean aerodynamically in comparison to any others in the game.

But now that you bring it up I would think all testing should be done with similar fuel loads (i.e. flight duration) if you wanted true comparisons.  Planes such as the F4U1-A, Ki-61, P-47-N and others suffer from full fuel comparisons just as the Spit VIII suffers against it's "bigger" brother.

[Anaxogoras]

Baldeagl, you do realize that the Spit XVI is ~286 lbs lighter than the Spit VIII when both have zero fuel, right?

Even with equal flight times the Spit XVI is going to be slightly better in many categories.

As to external fuel tanks I carry them on all of the Spit models and contrary to your assertation that they are always dropped once engaged, I mentioned that I don't drop mine.  As far as external fuel tanks go they are relatively clean aerodynamically in comparison to any others in the game.

The point was that it's absolutely ridiculous to measure the Spit's top speed with an external fuel tank, but measure other aircraft clean.  The suggestion that the XVI's performance stats are misleading because you like to fight with the drop tank on is...well, I think you know where I'm going with that.

Just be glad that HTC gives us a free aircraft that could easily be perked.