AMD Phenom II = Loser

[Ack-Ack]

Did I read that right?  drdeath is telling us to think before we speak?

Extreme gamers, what can you do?   


ack-ack

[Masherbrum]

Did I read that right?  drdeath is telling us to think before we speak?

Yep.   Maybe he'll post another useless program with a hacked DLL file?  

[drdeathx]

I understand Intel outperforms AMD so I won't try to argue a losing subject.

Think this is a quote from my previous reply? Yup. I re-checked and it is. Guess we need to hope AMD goes out of business so future processors from Intel can be about double what they should be.

If you look at the comparisons to the Q9400, the New Phenoms did nicely in most tests i've seen but they do not compete with the i7 series. This is a "nice step" for AMD considering the status of the company and market conditions. Again, AMD is keeping the prices down from Intel. These tests and reviews are interpreted different ways. This can be a step in the right direction but Intel is still far ahead. Most gamers are huge Intel fans and they should be but I will say again, hope AMD levels the playing field next time. There are many reviews saying the same thing Ack.

Ack, still waiting on what the published test results you or your company did on that AGP 3650 ATI card.   

[TilDeath]

Intel's stock dropped today as their business is down 23%. All the PC builders are buying lower cheaper CPU's and overstocked product and not big orders on newer tecnology. This is where the companies larger margins(profit) lies.

Profits are down not because of a loss of market share... that actually went up.  The profits are down because of end user sales.  Simply put, not as many PC sales because of the economy.

With Intel coming out with the i7 doing what AMD has been doing for years and surpassing them at their own game out of the gate, putting the memory controller on the processor instead of the Northbridge and forgoing the FSB.  There is a lot to be said on for that and I cant wait to see the next Intel release.  Oh did I mention the fact of no problems and how much of speed demons the i7's are.  AMD has never done that.

IMHO buying an AMD processor over an Intel is like purchasing a car, you can get a Chevy (AMD) or a Caddy (Intel) they are both GM (processors) but there is still no compairing the two other then they are autos

[Ack-Ack]

Think this is a quote from my previous reply? Yup. I re-checked and it is. Guess we need to hope AMD goes out of business so future processors from Intel can be about double what they should be.

If you look at the comparisons to the Q9400, the New Phenoms did nicely in most tests i've seen but they do not compete with the i7 series. This is a "nice step" for AMD considering the status of the company and market conditions. Again, AMD is keeping the prices down from Intel. These tests and reviews are interpreted different ways. This can be a step in the right direction but Intel is still far ahead. Most gamers are huge Intel fans and they should be but I will say again, hope AMD levels the playing field next time. There are many reviews saying the same thing Ack.

The Phenom II caught everyone by surprise when it was shown to be slower than the Core 2 line and obviously gets soundly trounced by the i7 series.  If the Phenom II is so good, why does it lag behind the Core 2 series?

Ack, still waiting on what the published test results you or your company did on that AGP 3650 ATI card.   

Our test results were published internally.  Unless you work for Square Enix, you're not going to see them.  But if you like, you can check our website and see the list of cards we recommend and support.  In that list, you'll see the ATI 3xxx line as one of our recommended cards to use with any of our PC titles and MMO games.


ack-ack

[bongaroo]

The Phenom II caught everyone by surprise when it was shown to be slower than the Core 2 line and obviously gets soundly trounced by the i7 series.  If the Phenom II is so good, why does it lag behind the Core 2 series?

Looking at the pricing, the Phenom II appears to be an ok, not the best, but an ok deal now.  Intel is probably going to do another price drop towards the end of the month.  If they do, it's not so competitive.  And comparing it to the i7, especially when you look at cost is like comparing a Mustang to a Lambo.  They both may be cars but performance and pricing are completely different.

[TilDeath]

Looking at the pricing, the Phenom II appears to be an ok, not the best, but an ok deal now.  Intel is probably going to do another price drop towards the end of the month.  If they do, it's not so competitive.  And comparing it to the i7, especially when you look at cost is like comparing a Mustang to a Lambo.  They both may be cars but performance and pricing are completely different.

There should be a drop this month, there are a few slated releases which should effect some prices.  Glad you decided to get on the car comparison wagon WELCOME

[bongaroo]

There should be a drop this month, there are a few slated releases which should effect some prices.  Glad you decided to get on the car comparison wagon WELCOME

First thing that popped into my head. 

[BaldEagl]

ACK ACK think before you speak. Phenom was not rated as a STINK BOMB.

I found this at the Official Internet Hardware Review site:

The Bomb... Intel Core I7
................ Intel Core2Duo
.
.
Average
.
.
.
.
Stink Bomb... AMD Phenom

It's official.

[drdeathx]

Our test results were published internally.  Unless you work for Square Enix, you're not going to see them.  But if you like, you can check our website and see the list of cards we recommend and support.  In that list, you'll see the ATI 3xxx line as one of our recommended cards to use with any of our PC titles and MMO games

So, I guess you tested it with only your PC titles an MMO games thus not seeing any vista issues. There are still vista issues out there although seems they have rectified some of them. The 3650 really did  not outperform the 2600.

[bongaroo]

So, I guess you tested it with only your PC titles an MMO games thus not seeing any vista issues. There are still vista issues out there although seems they have rectified some of them. The 3650 really did  not outperform the 2600.

You assume an awful lot don't you?

[Skuzzy]

You think ATI has Vista issues?  NVidia is the King of issues with Vista at the moment.  It has taken NVidia 5 driver releases to fix problems with DirectShow.  One of thier drivers would crash Internet Explorer if IE had to fork off a Windows Media Player to play something.

Right now, neither of them are perfect, but ATI is actually ahead of NVidia in the Vista driver department.

Granted, I do not hang around with *extreme* gamers.  I prefer talking to engineers as they usually have more on the ball than any end user does.

NVidia is still playing catch up with ATI in the area of stable Vista drivers.

As far as AMD goes, they are still a long way behind Intel in the performance market.  And the original Phenom was a disaster.  A nasty bug in the first gen parts caused all types of performance issues.  It hurt AMD badly.  AMD's best bet is to find a niche market and try to dominate it.  They are too far behind in the performance market now to catch Intel.

If Intel wants to own a market, they usually will, if not through product, they can do it through the sheer amount of cash they can throw at something.  And thier stock went down due to them completely missing the guess as to what thier revenues would be.  Even with the slump they managed to pick up more marketshare.

If you think that slump in sales hurt Intel, wait until you see AMD's numbers.  I hope AMD can hang in there, but they are fooling themselves if they think they can go toe-to-toe with Intel.

[Rebel]

no kiddin' skuzzy.  Hopin for an AMD win.  Just built my bro a system with an AMD proc. 

I friggin' HATE intel. 

[drdeathx]

AMD Phenom was everything but 'flawless' and yes, it was a bomb and not all that commercially successful as well.

Here are some snippets of reviews from when the Phenom was released.

AnandTech Review of AMD's Phenom CPU
Hexus.net's review
Extremetech's review
PC Perspective's review
The product isn't successful if the only selling point is its low price and not quality.  It seems like AMD is starting to use Cyrus' business model of releasing sub-par CPUs at a low price instead of making a quality product. 

Okay, there is one CPU that the Phenom was slightly better than, and that was the Athlon X2 64 6400+ although the Phenom 9500 and 9600 were slower (8.4% and 4.3% respectively) than the Athlon X2 64 6400+.


ack-ack

Not wasting time posting other reviews that basically said what I replied earlier. Some reviews were negative some we upbeat. None of the reviews said AMD beat Intel but some said AMD was going in the right direction.

Again, if you saw my reply earlier in this post and researched the Intel prices prior to the original Phenom release, Intel's prices were to say the least, rediculouly high. When the Phenoms released, the prices dropped. With the Phenom III release, the prices of Intel will drop more. I think Tildeath said price drops will happen end of this month.

Again, I am not arguing AMD outperforms Intel. They don't. The testing in almost every category except programs like photoshop pretty much met the Q9400. Most testing was not done against the Q9650 because its a $600 processor. Looks like AMD performed nicely against same priced Intel processors. Now the i7 series is a different story. They smoke AMD no question about it. At least AMD has gotten this far. Hopefully the Fusion brand will step up to the i7.

The product isn't successful if the only selling point is its low price and not quality.

None of these reviews either negative or positive used the verbage "quality". They pretty much reviewed performance. AMD needs to stress price point seeing they trail Intel. Until they catch up, the price needs to be lower. It is simple(Value pricing concept).

Okay, there is one CPU that the Phenom was slightly better than, and that was the Athlon X2 64 6400+ although the Phenom 9500 and 9600 were slower (8.4% and 4.3% respectively) than the Athlon X2 64 6400+.

Looks like the New Phenom III tested very close to the Q9400 and beat the Q6600 in the reviews I saw.

[drdeathx]

You think ATI has Vista issues?  NVidia is the King of issues with Vista at the moment.  It has taken NVidia 5 driver releases to fix problems with DirectShow.  One of thier drivers would crash Internet Explorer if IE had to fork off a Windows Media Player to play something.

Right now, neither of them are perfect, but ATI is actually ahead of NVidia in the Vista driver department.

Granted, I do not hang around with *extreme* gamers.  I prefer talking to engineers as they usually have more on the ball than any end user does.

NVidia is still playing catch up with ATI in the area of stable Vista drivers.

As far as AMD goes, they are still a long way behind Intel in the performance market.  And the original Phenom was a disaster.  A nasty bug in the first gen parts caused all types of performance issues.  It hurt AMD badly.  AMD's best bet is to find a niche market and try to dominate it.  They are too far behind in the performance market now to catch Intel.

If Intel wants to own a market, they usually will, if not through product, they can do it through the sheer amount of cash they can throw at something.  And thier stock went down due to them completely missing the guess as to what thier revenues would be.  Even with the slump they managed to pick up more marketshare.

If you think that slump in sales hurt Intel, wait until you see AMD's numbers.  I hope AMD can hang in there, but they are fooling themselves if they think they can go toe-to-toe with Intel.

yesterday Intel was in the $14 range per share AMD $2.22... EEEEK