justice for Oscar grant

[Elfie]

Sorry.  Police officers are trained and paid and expected to follow the rules of escalation.

Are you a cop Tango?

His brother is a Fed, he's told us that at least 3 times in this thread alone.....does that count? 

[Elfie]

So you are saying because he was resisting is the reason it escalated to the point of the officer reacting?

Guess that means he would still be alive if he had done what the cops said and not resisted.

Thats the point I've been making but everyone wants to lynch the cop and put ALL the blame on him. The cop is responsible for his actions but none want to make Grant responsible for his.

The police have training to deal with situations like this and should be able to deal with them without resorting to deadly force. Due to their training the police should be held to the highest standards possible in situations such as this.

I would hazard a guess that similar scenarios to this one are played out many times each day across this country and no one else gets killed.

As someone else pointed out, look at all the crap Rodney King pulled and he didn't end up dead. (He did get the crap kicked out of him though.) Grant didn't use or even attempt to use deadly force, the police officer did and he did so without just cause. There can be no just cause in using deadly force when you have a suspect face down on the ground.

[Tango]

How you can still try to defend that is incomprehensible,

I never said I was defending the cop. Its the fact that everyone wants to put ALL the blame on the cop and none on Grant. IF he had done what the cops told him to do and not resisted then it would have had a differnet ending. Instead it set everything in motion for it to escalate to that ending.

[bongaroo]

Perhaps if Grant we're still around we'd agree that he ought to learn not to resist arrest.  Unfortunately, that isn't an option is it?

[Elfie]

I never said I was defending the cop. Its the fact that everyone wants to put ALL the blame on the cop and none on Grant. IF he had done what the cops told him to do and not resisted then it would have had a differnet ending. Instead it set everything in motion for it to escalate to that ending.

Only the cop is responsible for escalating the events to deadly force. He did have a tazer and could have used that option instead. He either consciously, or subconsciously chose to use deadly force instead of just enough force to subdue Mr. Grant.

[Masherbrum]

I never said I was defending the cop. Its the fact that everyone wants to put ALL the blame on the cop and none on Grant. IF he had done what the cops told him to do and not resisted then it would have had a differnet ending. Instead it set everything in motion for it to escalate to that ending.

I suggest you read:  "Into the Kill Zone:  A Cop's Eye View of Deadly Force" by David Klinger.   I read this just as I was beginning to start on Academy.   My wife didn't want to become a cop after we married.   

Read the book.

[Tango]

Only the cop is responsible for escalating the events to deadly force. He did have a tazer and could have used that option instead. He either consciously, or subconsciously chose to use deadly force instead of just enough force to subdue Mr. Grant.

And still you ignore the fact that the cop would not have done so if Grant had not resisted and allowed them to cuff him. He would be alive and the cop wouldn't be on trial.

Instead you guys place all the blame on the actions of one but ignore the actions of the other.

[Elfie]

And still you ignore the fact that the cop would not have done so if Grant had not resisted and allowed them to cuff him. He would be alive and the cop wouldn't be on trial.

Instead you guys place all the blame on the actions of one but ignore the actions of the other.

Again, you ignore the fact that the police are trained to deal with these types of situations properly. This officer did not deal with this situation in the proper way. He used deadly force when it was not needed and in fact was more along the lines of an execution since the suspect was laying face down and was shot in the back. It wasn't like he was going to get away with all those cops there.

[Tango]

And again you ignore the fact that if he did what was asked of him the cop would never had made that mistake in the first place.

[Masherbrum]

And again you ignore the fact that if he did what was asked of him the cop would never had made that mistake in the first place.

If the defense uses this type of statement, they're screwed.   

[Tango]

If the defense uses this type of statement, they're screwed.   

So your saying that only the police should be held in acount of thier actions but not citizens?

[Masherbrum]

"Dispersal of blame" is hardly at stake here.   He fluffied up, regardless of "resisting arrest", now he has to face the consequences. 

You seem to forget I respect all LEO's, but this is a profession where "mistakes" cannot be made.   Especially "Use of Force". 

[Tango]

Yet I find it funny that you place ALL the blame on the outcome of that incident on the cop and say Grant was totally innocent in his actions.

I guess you are one of those that say the 4 cops who shot Diallo are guilty of murder as well.

[Masherbrum]

You're whole stance in this thread is based on "assumptions" of what we "feel".   You're way off base on this and I pray to God that you are NOT an LEO.   

It doesn't MATTER what they did at this point, he's caught in a possible lie.   If you confuse a stun gun with a duty weapon, WTSHTF, you are in the wrong profession.   END OF STORY.

I'm done with this one, it's "excessive force" backed by "lies and mistakes".   He'll go to prison and rightly so. 

[Sox62]

Edit:To remove reply-better off staying out