Author Topic: All hail...  (Read 7811 times)

Offline Delirium

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Re: All hail...
« Reply #150 on: January 19, 2009, 06:51:40 PM »
No point in restating my argument, I've all but given up on the future of the fight within AH. Frankly, the fight on the forums are generally more intense than the ones in the virtual skies of AH.

Here is what I posted before...

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,255480.0.html
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Offline Bronk

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Re: All hail...
« Reply #151 on: January 19, 2009, 07:04:38 PM »
See Rule #4

Offline bongaroo

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Re: All hail...
« Reply #152 on: January 19, 2009, 07:06:16 PM »
Callsign: Bongaroo
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Offline mechanic

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Re: All hail...
« Reply #153 on: January 19, 2009, 07:11:31 PM »
does anyone need me to post countless films from the good encounters and friendly people i meet in the arenas month in month out? I just cant understand how some people are not having fun. Its like they spend half the time doing most of the things they complain about then the rest complaining when it comes back on them.

I never even had a computer for Airwarrior or Warbirds, but since i joined AH1 the MA gameplay has basically stayed the same...and it is fun, if you look from the right angles. I think its not the game that changes so much as the people who play it. All it would take is a shift back to making thing fun for yourself because....wow...we are flying hundreds of cartoon warbirds in packed arenas vs real people over a network that most of us never imagined possible 20 years ago. Jesus, this game is fun, but i geuss you can make anything suck if you say it does enough times.

And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline Scotch

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Re: All hail...
« Reply #154 on: January 19, 2009, 07:55:37 PM »


When I started this thread my intentions were clearly to bring to light what I believe is the negative mentality shifting what Aces High is really about down to the core. My problem is not with NOE missions or base captures per se. The real issue my screen shots show is what others are calling the Mega-horde or air force building mentality and how it is influencing the player base and future of the game.

In order for any game, which is what this is, to be fun, the player has to feel that they have some glimmer of hope to win. Originally the combat flight sim was about the pilot vs pilot fight. Capturing the few neutral bases around a pond was just a way to either stir up or get closer to a fight. But the game itself was about air combat. Sharpening your skills and testing them out against your opponent. You had a chance to be better than the other guy if you dedicated yourself. The other guy would usually help you out on your road to "Ace-dom". It all came down to the heart pumping, sweaty palm fights. Whether it be 1v1, 2v1, 2v2, or squad vs squad. Each person went in knowing they might win or lose, but it was balanced. No one brought the gun to the knife fight. It was all you vs him/her.

At some point this drive to improve your skills whether be it in pure dogfighting, bombing, or strategic mission planning started going the way of the dodo bird and these large squads began showing up. I'm not saying anything new here. We all know this as fact.

The fact is that the majority of players in AH2 at this time have zero ACM skills. They don't have the desire to learn, because learning takes effort and effort is to be avoided at all cost. So, they fly in gangs where the risk of getting singled out is minimal. Yet, many still die; testament to their uber skill set....
The reason people don't investigate a flashing base is that it means one of two things....or you run into a horde and are outnumbered by 30 to 1.  Sure, in the second case you can report it, but it is usually too late to up fighters and have enough E to engage with reasonable success so the defenders end up in GVs.
For those of us who like to do air-to-air combat the flashing base is pretty much a lose-lose scenario, so we ignore it.
1.  The MA HAS become a squad based arena since the introduction of large maps and Numbers...undeniable...I always have 14-15 guys in the nighttime hours to call to help defend a noe or gv assault.  AND IT IS FUN!!! Thats the benefit in being in a squad that WORKS TOGETHER!  If Scotch insists on being in a squad that only fields 1-2 players at a time...then he may need to a) change squads or b) not oppose missions if it causes him to lose sleep.

The concern I share with many other people is the effect this is having on game play. The great cod himself has stated that taking things to such extreme unbalances is detrimental to Aces High. That was three years ago. As these hordes grow the only way a player feels he can compete is by joining a mega horde of his own. Horde creates horde creates horde. Three years ago it was just the BoPs "air force". Look at the squad roster today. Look at the dar bars on your map.

 The need and desire to sharpen your skills becomes obsolete. You and your "wingmen", all 30 of them, rule the skies and the ground unopposed. The horde with only 20 people? They can't possibly fight against those odds. "Those guys are too good for us." So they've gone to the other side of the map. Horde successful. They have better chances against 3 pilots and a #s guy in a manned ack. Thus essentially removing the glimmer of hope from 3 determined pilots as they get clobbered into oblivion over and over again until the hangars are bombed out. The #'s dude in the manned ack? He's still shooting at the 3 friendlies... :lol
« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 10:00:09 PM by Scotch »
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Offline Scotch

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Re: All hail...
« Reply #155 on: January 19, 2009, 07:56:58 PM »
Those 3 pilots?
One of them is a long time vet. He remembers what things used to be like, even if slightly glamorized. He grows tired of the ever growing horde mentality. He's a well respected member of the community. Maybe he used to volunteer his time and train new guys the fight, or run scenarios. People were interested and he was ecstatic to help. But now the #'s guy, still stuck in the manned ack, is more interested in joining the horde. "They have numbers!" "They rule the skies!" "I want to win too!"
Pilot #1's influence over the player base can't compete. His game has disappeared. He decides to delete his account and face wife ack instead.  :uhoh

Pilot #2 thinks he knows what's going on. He decides to say something about it. Maybe people will be reasonable and listen. "Everyone is here because they love the game! So lets work together!" He comes to the bbs and makes a few posts offering his concerns and making his suggestions. The only response he gets is "Quit whinning!!!" "It's my $15, I'll do what I want!!!"
Disheartened he decides to only fly in events. Hopefully pilot  #1 stays around long enough to run some good ones otherwise pilot #2 quits.

Pilot #3 is on the last day of his two week trial. He's a little undecided about taking the plunge so he logs on and takes off. About 5minutes into his first flight he runs into an enemy plane. "Cool! Lets go mr!!!" He attacks the guy we'll call "Falconweeeng".
"Falconweeeng" is one of those pilots usually in a horde, so when he's caught off guard by Pilot #3 he doesn't quite know what to do. So he re-ups and brings his horde of 20 over to take the base away from pilots 1,2,3, and #s dude. After being pounded out of the sky and pm'd insults, pilot #3 decides he can get better game play out of solitaire. He decides not to join.

Eventually 3 of our 4 beloved pilots quit, while the #s dude, this time in a 5" cv gun has risen through the ranks and leads a horde squad of his own now! His horde rules whatever sector they are in, and Pilots A,B, and C "can either deal with it or quit!!!"
« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 08:22:20 PM by Scotch »
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Offline Scotch

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Re: All hail...
« Reply #156 on: January 19, 2009, 07:57:36 PM »
Little side story aside. That is the concern I share with others. The simmer is being chased out by the xboxer.
The game is no longer about Air combat but point and click seal clubbing.

So maybe after reading this thread someone says "hey, these guys might be on to something...how can we change things?"

Here in lies the dilemma. There is nothing wrong with the game itself. The FE is fine. It's the player attitude within it. And unfortunately making things like base capture more difficult will only cause the hordes to get larger. Because as we've stated, they already lack the skills to compete without their overwhelming numbers.

So then how do we address this issue?


Is it too late? Quite possibly. But after investing so many dollars and hours into a hobby, some people would like to try.

Being realistic there is almost no chance that even 100 like minded vets grouped together can stop this digression on their own. They know this. They have a forum to discuss it. Pages upon pages have been written. Finally they're starting to give up and quit.

1) The AH Training Academy needs to get setup. At this point only something specifically sponsored by HiTech Creations is going to have enough draw to influence a large enough amount of players to have any effect. It is my hope that when this is finally setup and running players are again inspired to learn, and question, and fight...for the sport of it. HTC needs to help facilitate this. The volunteers are great, but just that, volunteers doing it in their spare time.

2) The CO's and leaders of these Mega horde squads need to concede that their overwhelming odds may actually be damaging the game when the game designer himself says so. Stop rolling across the map and killing every potential fight before it happens. Take your squads into the DA or the TA. Enter the squad vs squad duels. Hone your skills and challenge yourself in the dogfight.

3) I realize that this third one is probably going to ruffle some feathers and if not done carefully can be just as negative, but the community needs to start policing itself again. It used to be, before the hordes took over, that if someone did do something like lead a hording NOE dweeb fest, they were spited, mocked, and scolded until they learned better.
That became increasingly harder in the anonymity of large servers and large hordes. This garbage game play needs to be looked down on again by the whole community. If that means naming names, and calling people out for it so be it.

Grief them and disrupt their horde "misshunzzz" until the servers are healthy again. All in good spirit and within the codes of conduct of course. While individually some of their pilots are the nicest guys in the world, the squads themselves take on a different light. It's nothing personal and I'm sorry if I single you out. But that's how it is.

At the same time I will continue to fight the fight and help anyone that is interested in learning or doing so.
I've been a trainer before (AWARKya). I've done that. I do that. I'm in the DA all the time helping guys out. Where are you?
Those of you who have flown the closing flights around the pond before the plug is pulled know what it's like to see something you put so much time and effort into go down the tubes. Those of you who've seen your favorite sport get turned into the NBA on ice know too. I already deleted my account and quit once. I don't want to do so again soon. That's my motivation.

Hey Scotch Suck it that is bishops. you jealous deal with it. OINK :rock


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« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 09:45:11 PM by Scotch »
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Offline Buzzard7

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Re: All hail...
« Reply #157 on: January 19, 2009, 08:28:33 PM »
I think some of the posters hit on the right idea. Some of these 1337 pile-its should be trying to help those they shoot down instead of running home to land their kills and thump their chest on 200. Maybe answer a noobs question honestly instead of telling them to hit Alt-F4. I may not be a great cartoon pilot but I do know some ACM. I will help anyone that asks. If you want more people to fight the way you do then teach them how. When you shoot someone down and realize they may be new,offer to help. It should be pretty obvious to the 1337 pilots who needs help.

If you teach them to fight to the end they may never get frustrated with the learning curve and never fall to the horde monster.

Now you may ask why I joined the POTW. I joined them because my squad disbanded shortly after I joined them. I flew with them because it was fun. The POTW was on one night doing the furball thing while I was around so I got on their vox and realized they were a bunch of fun to fly with. Joined them and it has been a blast doing all kinds of combat missions with them. ALL kinds of missions not just the horde base take.

Offline FLOTSOM

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Re: All hail...
« Reply #158 on: January 19, 2009, 09:27:22 PM »
my .02 cents in this is simple.

people want to play a losers game employing losers strategies, then fight back.

NOE's dont last if someone posts on 200 where it is and where it is heading. adding a little specific information on the assault is also helpful (i.e. what squad is running the mission, number of planes in the air, plane types and load outs ect)

what? what was that? did some one just scream SPY! how lowly?! how dweebish?!! well that is exactly how i feel about scumbags destroying the fighting spirit of this game by swarming bases by booming in at 50 feet with 20, 30 or more players.

im a firm believer in giving your enemy the fight they deserve, not the fight they wished you would.

you want some one to roll over and play dead the go back to easy mode atari. i hear pong is making a come back.

i am a proud member of a squad that allows country jumping so i will without a doubt dedicate my time to divulging any and every NOE mission i spot on 200. im not a sneaky hide who you are type of spy, im gonna do it so that the entire world can watch.

if you dont like getting your NOE horde  missions busted up by waiting enemy fighters, i guess your gonna have to gain some alt. which makes my job easier, once you show up on dar everyone will know your coming well in advance. then you will have to fight to take the base because others will be prepared. but then i guess you also have to learn some acm to defend yourself, or youll just keep getting torn up by the 51 dweebs that are waiting 10,000 feet over your head.

consider yourselves warned.

Scotch bro, just as a foot note to this. i am in full agreement with your issues here.

but, i wish to say that from personal experience i do not believe that the B.O.P.s are the issue here. now can i guarantee this.....no....but..

now i cannot speak on all of the squad nights over the last 2 years since i left the BOP's, but i can speak of what i know.

i flew with them for a few months and in that time the number of NOE gang bang raids were very limited. on our squad nights we may have done one and on rare occasions two of these missions. usually we spent our time gang defending any particular soft spot on the map. some were at multiple bases being defended simultaneously while others where running bombing missions.

there was normally never more than 10 (maybe 15) BOP's at any one place at any time. to many people took away from the ability of everyone to have a good time. too much tripping over each other. the most BOP's i had ever seen in one place at one time was 27, and they were defending against a horde of over 50 (that was an awsome night and the fight for that one base went on for 3 hours)

the idea behind the squad night (as it was explained to me) was to bring everyone together and then split people into groups. give them multiple tasks and allow them to disperse and play the game. we would jump from group to group or break out onto our own, doing many different types of things in one night. it was to maximize the fun and experience for each member.

yes they did like to capture bases and take real estate, but it was never in the fashion of the things i see going on in the MA today. these squad nights were one night a week and lasted normally for 4 hours or so. this is not the constant bombardment of the map by the hordes that we are seeing today.

i do see the problem with massive squads and their constant hording and mass invasions. i agree with you. i just wanted to add my .02 about the BOP's because i think they are the tiniest part of the problem not the epitome of it.

FLOTSOM
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: All hail...
« Reply #159 on: January 19, 2009, 09:28:09 PM »
I agree with Scotch, there is nothing wrong with the game, its peoples attitudes that are bringing the game play down into the gutters.

There is nothing wrong with a squad, even big ones. Big ones must realize that just with their shear numbers they can dominate an area. Knowing this they can adjust the squad ops to make it fun for everyone, not just their squad mates. Use those numbers to attack a number of bases at once, fight a two front war. This is a game and your women and children won't be killed because you fight on two fronts.  :) Sure its a bit harder to accomplish your goals of wining the war, but think of how much satisfaction you'll get doing it.

Getting people to honestly look at what they are doing is going to be the hard part. I had a guy tell me how honorable he was, how honest. After he called me out for HOing him I showed him the film which proved I didn't HO him yet he still believes he's being honest and honorable.  :rolleyes:  Whats honest or honarable about lieing? The quake mentality has moved in and is whats going to be left. Just another shootem up.

 "LEEEEERRRRROOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!"
« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 09:29:44 PM by The Fugitive »

Offline Scotch

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Re: All hail...
« Reply #160 on: January 19, 2009, 09:34:04 PM »
Jenkins.
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Offline Bronk

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Re: All hail...
« Reply #161 on: January 19, 2009, 09:42:01 PM »
See Rule #4

Offline grizz441

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Re: All hail...
« Reply #162 on: January 19, 2009, 10:13:48 PM »
Obviously there are different philosophies on game play.  This is to you hoarders out there, NOE'ers, and land grabbers alike: If you want to bulldoze over undefended bases and then get the wtgz from your ignorant countrymen, then so be it.  It's a big map, you can steamroll as many undefended bases as your heart pleases, it's your $15.  But seriously, there's nothing that pisses me off more than when we are having a good fight (late at night in particular) and someone sneaks a base that we are fighting at.  You are ruining the game by doing this.  One day you're going to realize that all that base taking time invested amounted to jack squat because if you do end up winning the war (zomg!), the map resets.  You'll never remember the bases you took, you'll remember the good fights you had and the people you met.

Offline Getback

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Re: All hail...
« Reply #163 on: January 19, 2009, 10:33:26 PM »
Obviously there are different philosophies on game play.  This is to you hoarders out there, NOE'ers, and land grabbers alike: If you want to bulldoze over undefended bases and then get the wtgz from your ignorant countrymen, then so be it.  It's a big map, you can steamroll as many undefended bases as your heart pleases, it's your $15.  But seriously, there's nothing that pisses me off more than when we are having a good fight (late at night in particular) and someone sneaks a base that we are fighting at.  You are ruining the game by doing this.  One day you're going to realize that all that base taking time invested amounted to jack squat because if you do end up winning the war (zomg!), the map resets.  You'll never remember the bases you took, you'll remember the good fights you had and the people you met.

I remember taking 10. :D

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Offline NoBaddy

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Re: All hail...
« Reply #164 on: January 19, 2009, 10:37:25 PM »
I remember taking 10. :D

Which 10? What date? Do you remember the AI you fought? How about the fights you didn't have??

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