Tuned vox & mega squads

[DCCBOSS]

Make no mistake.. I'm only interested in quality air combat. I don't care what you do inside your squad and don't have any interest in meddling with it.  If helping out Falcon pays off that way, I'll be glad for it.. I'll be glad to be proven wrong on my assumption if you really are training your members.  That's all I care about.  Quality air combat.

I invited you so you could see for yourself, not to meddle but prove my point about our squad.

[1Boner]

I think what the vocal minority is saying.... is that you vets that lead these newbs to this way of playing the game, inherently.....over time....take away from why the game was originally created....air combat....  now, that doesn't mean having a sqd night and taking a base is bad, not at all, that is perfectly fine....... but 20 - 30 squaddies, not to mention the 10 to 12 others that jump on board....and noe an undefended base....which has become the MO of some.... so, what it has become is a breeding ground for a fight avoiding, landgrabbing mentality...which is at odds to the reason for the games creation...to stimulate air to air combat....and some of you fellas are the ones promoting it....hence the adverse commentary by said vocal minority.....  

Now, as for me....I don't even like to up and defend against those types of raids because there is no fight in them... if you see 30 coming in, that means you have to dodge 29 HO's...(goons can't HO)...which is not fun in the least...and involves absolutely no acm....which is what the base taking part of the game is supposed to promote.  It's like the bomb n bail, or the pork and auger....you just can't get a fight out of them.  

Oooooooh' pullin out the noe card!

Not sure what game you play, but I don't see that many noes happening. And I personally like to up against them when I do.

And fight avoiding??  Have you ever looked up while playing this game?

Lots and lots of planes up there, just try to get up to their altitude to engage them.

I'm sure I don't have to tell you what happens when you try to "fight" them , do I??

Try looking down sometimes too.

I love all the WTGs when some spawn camper lands 37 kills in his T-34.

What can we do to stop that type of behavior?

Avoiding fights?

Theres alot of ways to avoid fighting in here, some are just more blatant than others.

Pointing the finger at Multi-wing squads as the major cause of this kind of behavior is really just plain silly.

I apreciate a great fight as much as the vocal minority does.

But when you walk into a bar you can't expect every girl in there to be a "10".

I take em when I can find em.

Again I will ask, If multi-wing squads were wiped off the map today, how would the game change??

There wouldn't be anymore noe base grabs? , running alt monkeys? everyone would suddenly be honorable and respectful?

You think guys would all of a sudden be lining up at the Trainers front door to learn how to really fly like Dick Bong?

I would venture to say that a year down the road after the demise of the "Boogie Squads" nothing will have changed in the game.

Nothing.

There are alot more regular squads than multi winged squads, so why has that community not stepped up to plate to correct the abhorent behavior they supposedly despise so?

You can't say that the community is so outraged about this behavior that nothing can be done about it because 20 or 30 guys play one night a week.

Is our influence that overpowering?

I think you would be exagerating if you thought or said so.

[LLogann]

AND....... The one thing that RookKnights don't ever see, is how many times a J0ker / Falcon23 mission only gets 6 people, 2 of which are goons and we still go............

Both of these fine sticks don't automatically get 30 volunteers every time.  And if you think that is really the case, come fly Bish for a night.

[LLogann]

AND....... The one thing that RookKnights don't ever see, is how many times a J0ker / Falcon23 mission only gets 6 people, 2 of which are goons and we still go............

Both of these fine sticks don't automatically get 30 volunteers every time.  And if you think that is really the case, come fly Bish for a night.

FalcnWng is the only movie star that always gets his men.

[viper215]

I cant believe this thread is still up...

[Bronk]

Just to make my stance very clear, I never said that "MEGA" squads increase things like bad game play in the Arenas.  This may or may not be the case. What I did say that as groups get larger the social dynamics change in a way that make squads much less personal. Simply put you can not know as much about many people, as you do about a few people. Hence real friendship diminishes in larger groups. It is much easier to to get to know just a few people, and have more fun with them. This is the only reason I have set squad limits.

HiTech

Kinda my my point about using the newbs as fodder. Smaller groups don't tend to do this. When ya have an excess of squadies ... why not use em as guided missiles?

[viper215]

Yawn

[Stang]

^^^^^

Guided missle.

 

[Cee64E]

Kinda my my point about using the newbs as fodder. Smaller groups don't tend to do this. When ya have an excess of squadies ... why not use em as guided missiles?

Okay.  Now for my 2 pennies on it.  I am one of those noob squadies.  I am not an excellent ACM guy but I am trying to get better.  Bronk, you have nailed me to the ground more than a few times.  We do train on our squad night.  Tonight's was practicing on dive bombing, which I still suck at.  We have in our squad a person of incredible skill who is our primary training officer for ACM and I have learned loads from him.  I read Fighter Combat twice.  And I'm STILL not as good as most of the folks in the game at acm.  I do much better in a tank.

My point is, from day one in RT I was NEVER asked to be a sacrifice fly.  When the best I could do was get a goon to town without hitting a tree, I was always given constructive criticism and encouragement by my squadron.  That has not changed, or my squadron affiliation would have

BTW Bronk,  The last time you shot me down, if I recall correctly,  It was three against one while we defended a base and it was a B&Z from ten thousand feet above me.  I'd have to check my gun cams to be sure, but that's not what I really call ACM.

[moot]

I invited you so you could see for yourself, not to meddle but prove my point about our squad.

I'm not seeing it..

[Bronk]

Okay.  Now for my 2 pennies on it.  I am one of those noob squadies.  I am not an excellent ACM guy but I am trying to get better.  Bronk, you have nailed me to the ground more than a few times.  We do train on our squad night.  Tonight's was practicing on dive bombing, which I still suck at.  We have in our squad a person of incredible skill who is our primary training officer for ACM and I have learned loads from him.  I read Fighter Combat twice.  And I'm STILL not as good as most of the folks in the game at acm.  I do much better in a tank.

My point is, from day one in RT I was NEVER asked to be a sacrifice fly.  When the best I could do was get a goon to town without hitting a tree, I was always given constructive criticism and encouragement by my squadron.  That has not changed, or my squadron affiliation would have

BTW Bronk,  The last time you shot me down, if I recall correctly,  It was three against one while we defended a base and it was a B&Z from ten thousand feet above me.  I'd have to check my gun cams to be sure, but that's not what I really call ACM.

See... you're taking this personal... don't. 
I'll give ya a " for example" When I first started playing this type of game was 96/97 (in AW). A bunch of dweebs called the pigstompers, IIRC about 12 members took me in. They answered every stupid question I threw at them and I had alot of em. We went from AOL to gamestorm right up to the demise of AW3. *shakes fist at EA*  I took a break from air combat games for quite a while. Then one day I ran across AH and said "what the hell".  My second day I scanned the roster and read "1ijac". I tuned him and asked if was the same from aw. The answer I got was an instant  invite back into the squad. It was like I never left.

Now if you think you're going to get that same experience with a squad pushing over 32 members... good luck to you. It might happen but I doubt it.


I'd just like to say the dweebs I'm flying with now are just as dweeby.

[E25280]

I understand HiTech's point about not being able to build "relationships" when numbers in a squad become very large, but consider . . .

I fly mostly Friday and Saturday nights.  When I fly, there are usually 3 squaddies whom I have gotten to know rather well.  We have that strong relationship HiTech is talking about.

Let's say two of those three also play Sundays, when I and one other player can't play.  So, let's say they recruit two other good friends to play at that time, since our magic number is 4.

Well, those two guys play Mondays and Tuesdays.  They get bored with only having 2 on Tuesdays, so they recruit 2 people to get to 4 people on line.  Those two happen to play Tuesdays and Wednesdays.  See where I am going?

Granted, to Hitech's point, as a Saturday flyer I may never, ever see or interact with a Wednesday flyer in the game.  That doesn't mean there isn't a "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" thing going on.  I may only ever interact and be great friends with a grand total of 5 individuals, but our squad would show on the roster as 28 people, and we would never have more than 4 people on per night.

Let's up it to 3 people playing the same two nights a week, and a "perfectly" staggered line up like I described grows the squad to 42 players, yet never more than 6 per night, still a low number to have those strong bonds of friendship in the game.  Add a few time zone changes, and . . .

And it is a highly contrived, highly academic exercise, to be sure.  But I hope it illustrates the point that >32 people on a roster does not necessarily mean there are no bonds of friendship to build that kind of loyalty to the squad and, by extension, the game.

For the record, I have never belonged to a multi-winged squad, and our current squad size is 10.


P.S.  PLEASE have mercy and DON'T do the forced assignment thing!  If the situation in my chosen arena stinks, I would much prefer having the option to change arenas rather than logging out for the evening!

[Bronk]

I understand HiTech's point about not being able to build "relationships" when numbers in a squad become very large, but consider . . .

I fly mostly Friday and Saturday nights.  When I fly, there are usually 3 squaddies whom I have gotten to know rather well.  We have that strong relationship HiTech is talking about.

Let's say two of those three also play Sundays, when I and one other player can't play.  So, let's say they recruit two other good friends to play at that time, since our magic number is 4.

Well, those two guys play Mondays and Tuesdays.  They get bored with only having 2 on Tuesdays, so they recruit 2 people to get to 4 people on line.  Those two happen to play Tuesdays and Wednesdays.  See where I am going?

Granted, to Hitech's point, as a Saturday flyer I may never, ever see or interact with a Wednesday flyer in the game.  That doesn't mean there isn't a "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" thing going on.  I may only ever interact and be great friends with a grand total of 5 individuals, but our squad would show on the roster as 28 people, and we would never have more than 4 people on per night.

Let's up it to 3 people playing the same two nights a week, and a "perfectly" staggered line up like I described grows the squad to 42 players, yet never more than 6 per night, still a low number to have those strong bonds of friendship in the game.  Add a few time zone changes, and . . .

And it is a highly contrived, highly academic exercise, to be sure.  But I hope it illustrates the point that >32 people on a roster does not necessarily mean there are no bonds of friendship to build that kind of loyalty to the squad and, by extension, the game.

For the record, I have never belonged to a multi-winged squad, and our current squad size is 10.


P.S.  PLEASE have mercy and DON'T do the forced assignment thing!  If the situation in my chosen arena stinks, I would much prefer having the option to change arenas rather than logging out for the evening!

So tell me ...do you think your hypothetical squad would ever be as close knit as my example above?

As a whole. not the little cliques formed within.

[E25280]

So tell me ...do you think your hypothetical squad would ever be as close knit as my example above?

Why wouldn't it?  I see the same 4-6 people all the time.  Heaven forbid, HTC closes down, BrandX opens up, after a year I finally try BrandX, see one or more of those 4-6 in a squad -- why wouldn't that instant kinship be there?

Response to your edit:  The "cliques" formed within are actually my point.  If the primary reason against "mega squads" is that they do not breed the types of relationships that are necessary to build loyalty to a group or the game, then I am not certain the logic is 100% sound.  Small group dynamics within the larger whole can and do occur.  Squads within a country can be one example, but "cliques" within a squad can be another.  Cliques that have overlapping members make the roster grow, but IMO does not necessarily mean the relationships are deminished on the whole.

The problem might be for a newcomer breaking into one of those "cliques", I suppose.  I'll have to give that one a bit more thought.

[Dadsguns]

I should have known this would be from you. 

Bronk, I invite you to fly with bish or us sometime, maybe we can get to know you a bit.
I really cant believe that you truly think the way you do and I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt that you know what your talking about, but your off, way off.

Kinda my my point about using the newbs as fodder. Smaller groups don't tend to do this. When ya have an excess of squadies ... why not use em as guided missiles?

I think there are alot of misconceptions about multi-wing squads, perpetrated by ignorance.

Its hard to argue with ignorance.

I cant believe I actually spent the hour and a half to read this whole debacle, but I did.  Out of all of what I saw these were the two quotes that sum it all up.

This Mountain of a mole hill is just getting lame.  I mentioned how the BBS is becoming the problem for grievers to rally up some troops for the cause of the flavor of the week, I was hoping I would be wrong. I believe it now. This is getting out of hand.