The debate here is over how to define the term "impact"...I am willing to grant that some may have your point of view...it is unclear to me why it is so hard for those like yourself to admit that there may be "different" reasons and goals people have for themselves in this game??
I dont need to admit that at all, I understand it. Some people are score weenies, some people are furballers and some people are land grabbers.
The reason we are having this discussion is because, so far as I can tell, we disagree on the issue of the "impact" that certain players' goals have on the rest of the player base.
For example... in my mind, you represent the horde. Now, I enjoy fighting against the horde for a set period of time. Ill up at the base under attack and have a ball for 10-15 minutes. I might even get a couple kills.
Sooner or later however, near the end of those 10-15 minutes, I wonder why I keep upping only to make it to 180IAS and get popped by one of twenty circling La7's, who will go land his 2 kill vulch sortie and proclaim himself God of AH on 200. So I leave.
Now, Im not suggesting that you not take bases - its an integral part of the game. But the "impact" that a horde has on the sector of their desire is, ultimately, demoralizing for the other side. Its so lopsided that the game transitions from fun to frustrating.
If this was limited in scope, I wouldnt have an issue with it. BUT. When I log in these days, I usually have one of two choices: up at a field being vulched or up to go vulch a field. There doesnt seem to be much inbetween anymore and, I assure you, I abhor 10v1 just as much as 1v10. Nothing annoys me quite so much as someone "clearing my 12."
Point is, the horde mentality doesnt seem to consider the "impact" that they are having on the enjoyment of the other players. If thats the "goal" then its self-serving, as previously stated. If not, then the lack of consideration, in and of itself, is a primary catalyst for why the gameplay has changed.
If your only definition of "combat" and "impact" involves fiters then it is simple to see why we really should not debate. Our purposes are not aligned at all. I'm sure Wal-MArt doesn't debate with Jeff Gordon over the way to run their supply trucks faster or more efficiently.
Similar enough to the above so I wont repeat it, but, just to be a little bit of a dick, Im sure Wal-Mart knows how to move supply trucks far more efficiently than Jeff Gordon. He's not a logistics guy. Hell, he cant even turn right.
AND we would be in complete disagreement over this...so would Mach and other guys in my squad. What a great country we live in that we can have 2 completely different opinions and not feel the need to FORCE our point of view on someone else.
Agreed! However, considering the above, a horde does, in effect, "force" its style of play in the arena. If their was an effective counter for it, or an alternative to it, we wouldnt be having this discussion.
my definition of comradery is simply more sweeping than yours
I'd state the inverse, but ok.
Those who derive enjoyment from such activities are super....however if they are only doing it because of recognition or status then they may have issues (much like government....either you serve the people OR you are serving yourself. Surely they are not only doing this because they crave recognition??? or elite status??? Am I somehow better because I teach Sunday school or work at the free clinic then other citizens in my town??...the answer is "no"...but I'm somehow lessened in your virtual world because I use the skills I have outside of AH instead of being volunteer staff here...makes no sense
Ouch. Hit a nerve? I dont think any of the volunteers are seeking recognition. I think they do what they do to improve the gaming experience for all of us. Thats a key point.
Its a key point because its, so far as I can tell, and correct me if Im wrong, a horde does what they do to improve the gaming experience for themselves.
Bringing non-virtual contributions to society into this thread is silly. We have boatload of real life men and women on this BBS who make REAL contributions to society; military, clergy, law enforcement, emergency response, education, or something as simple and unsung as waiting at the stop until the neighborhood kids get on the bus. None of it has an impact in-game, which is what we are discussing.
You really don't see or understand the bias of the BBS??? Did you even know that i moved the squad here and have been in AH since 2001? Look at my number of posts compared to yours and others of the "experienced" crowd. See that I didnt even sign on to the bbs for a period of time. I played AW from ~1997 til I moved here and never posted once. Almost a third of my squad is from the AW days...we have more who have moved on over time but still play.
Again I have played this game from AOhell to present, I'm not sure that will slow you down though...as Johnathan Stewart would say "Proceeeeed....." rolleyes
I dont see any sort of bias. I see opinions from different posters, motivated by different experiences. If youve been playing since AOL, then you understand exactly what this genre used to be and what it has become. No further text is necessary to illustrate my point to this effect.
This may be the reason you are really upset...you see a pecking order where many do not...lack of desired recognition can be frustrating and I DO BELIEVE that is the root of problem...folks who need recognition versus folks who don't see accomplishments within a video game as anything worth getting worked up over
To a certain extent I will agree, in concept. Although, personally, I am not upset, I am disappointed with the path that the game has taken - largely driven by the style of play.
To that end, its not as cut and dried, or arrogant for that matter, as simple "seniority." Those of us who have been around longer are here to help. In days past, most newer players wanted that help and were grateful for the time spent.
These days, most newer players simply show up and think they own the game. It doesnt work that way. Since you mentioned real life contributions, although I disagree with that applicability in this case, Ill simply ask you to consider how you behave for the first few weeks after you have been hired to a new job.
Do you run around shooting your mouth off and thumbing your nose at the CEO?
Nope. You'd get fired.
You listen, you watch, you learn. People are anxious to bring you up to speed but, you know what? If youre going to be a pissant and generally disrupt the environment *already in place* your value, in the eyes of more senior employees, will be diminished significantly.
Now I hate to incur the wrath of the Muppets but if you call what occurs nightly on ch 200 from your C.O. and his followers "positive" then I totally agree with the rest of your statement! (Mark don't jump me....you know how i feel about 200 Evil) Once again Mazz you have no concept of our squad or what we do or don't do...i come under fire as does my squad because we like to "stand up" to those we consider to be "BBS bullies". I don;t always disagree as much with the message as i do the messenger. A long time ago it was the BKs...now it appears Muppets and the DFC have assumed the mantle of preaching the "right" and "Wrong" way to have fun for $15...
I dont speak for the AoM and I dont speak for the DFC. I speak for myself. I dont perceive there to be any sort of "bullying" activity - however I do recognize self-policing when I see it and I agree that it is effective.
Those of us who are vocal on 200 are self-policing. If you take offense to it, you really shouldnt. If you could hear those individuals laughing on vox while they type what makes your blood boil, you'd have a different opinion. Ironically enough, most of those guys are the nicest people youll ever meet.
As such, squads like AoM, the BK's, etc, etc. These are groups made up of, by and large, long-time players. There are old Damned sticks floating around, old Nomads, old Misfits - and they congregate into groups, for better or (sometimes) worse, because their style of play is similar.
The squadron I am lucky enough to be a part of isnt so much a squadron as a gaggle of widely varying personalities who have one thing in common: we are all, in comparison to the average player today, psychotically aggressive when it comes to engaging bad guys, regardless of the odds.
Basically, we enjoy a great fight. More importantly, with respect to the subject matter, we dont interrupt a good fight. Ill be the last person to pick you if I see you engaged with a single con. Thats how it used to be.
Today, when Im engaged and having what may turn out to be a great fight with another player, its all to often cut short by the waves of Spit 16's, La7's and NIKI's that damned near fight each other to get a shot at me.
Thats where self-policing comes into play. The MOST vocal players on 200, if you notice, are only vocal when those good fights are ruined by fifteen no-name dweeblettes.
By contrast, those "offensive" 200 typers are the first to salute the player who shoots them down on equal footing.
In a nut-shell, since Ive gone on a tangent once more, the "bullies of the BBS" are, ironically enough, the most considerate of other players and their enjoyment of the game.
These threads end up like this because a significant portion of the player base seems to place very little, if any value, upon same.
