What CONV do you prefer for cannons?

[Bronk]

Yeah, you seem to be right about that!  The first time I looked it up it must've been specs for a non-aircraft version.

No, not seem.  I am right, kills you to admit that ehh? Contrary to popular belief, I'm not just some trolling numpty.

[Sincraft]

Is there an easier method than fiddling with the in hangar conv settings?
a .DOT. command that works say? 

S

[Masherbrum]

Doing that will cause your cannons to converge well below your center-mounted weapons.  Why would you do that?

Center mounted cannons/mg's have no "convergence."

[Rich46yo]

Im slowly whittling back my ILK-2 guns to 400. They are at 450 now. Eventually I'll probably have them set to 400 again, or maybe shorter. If you can get converged cannon hits on armor, out of a Storm bird, at 300 to 400, its is extremely lethal. Most of all when at a high angle. You'll even get Tigers smoking if you hit them right.

[Lusche]

Center mounted cannons/mg's have no "convergence."

They do.

Ah models vertical convergence as well as horizontal convergence. Convergence point is where the bullet streams crosses the gunsight line. When firing nose mounted guns with different trajectories, all the bullets will converge on that point.

[Sincraft]

I'm having more success with 50 cals set at 550,500,450 it seems..  Go figure.

Better for diving deflection shots and those inside turns that you just can't seem to get ahead of the guy with.

Lets face it, that will make the bullets arch more which for an inside turn is the dif between barely skinning their tail if at all or ripping of ailerons.

Cannons I'm still up in the air with.  I fire all weapons when I fire because of my joystick setup.  If I had ONE more button I would be set.

[Banshee7]

Lusche...what would be a good convergence match-up for the Mk108 and the 13mm to converge like so?

I just set my Mk108 convergence at 200, I usually only fire that gun anyway

[Lusche]

Lusche...what would be a good convergence match-up for the Mk108 and the 13mm to converge like so?

I just set my Mk108 convergence at 200, I usually only fire that gun anyway

While there are some convergences that do not make much sense, there is not a single good one, but many. It all depends on how you fly, fight & shoot. If you are using the MK 108 only at very close range, but the MG 131s for long range (to make them turn perhaps) then different convergences would be ok.

Just observe & analyze your fights, maybe watch them in film viewer.

[BaldEagl]

For anything with cannons its hard to be convergience in the 300 - 350 range.

You really don't want to push it out beyond that for several reasons.

What reasons? 

I fly cannon planes the vast majority of the time.  Normally if the machine guns are at least 13mm/.50 cal they are set to 650 otherwise they are set to 400.  If the cannons are Russian or Japanese they are set to 400, otherwise they are set to 650.  The major exception is that if the machine guns are set to 400 then I also bring the cannons in to 400 although there are other exceptions.  Regardless, I never ever set anything closer that 400.  My hit % is consistantly 10-12% regardless if I spend the majority of my time buff hunting or dog fighting.

Im slowly whittling back my ILK-2 guns to 400. They are at 450 now. Eventually I'll probably have them set to 400 again, or maybe shorter. If you can get converged cannon hits on armor, out of a Storm bird, at 300 to 400, its is extremely lethal. Most of all when at a high angle. You'll even get Tigers smoking if you hit them right.

I also set the IL2 cannons and machine guns to 650.  Tonight I killed 2 T-34's a Tiger and an M3 on one sortie.  Also, the T34 and Tiger kills were all at relatively low angles.  The IL2's guns seem pretty lethal to me at 650.  All your doing by bringing them in is lowering your per pass firing time.



And now for my convergence theory priviously posted in another thread:

I know my set-ups go against the grain and most wouldn't agree with them.  I've just learned to hit long when I need to even though most times I fire inside 400.

I think about it like this; if, in the worst case scenario, I have wing mounted guns, then they will be firing inward from that point no matter what the convergence is set to.  That being the case, I don't see a big difference between converging at 400 vs 650; only with weaker guns (i.e .303's) or those with poor ballistics (i.e. Russian and Japanese cannons) IMO (which I always set to 400... Russian and Japanese planes and early Spits).  With hub mounted cannon or cowl mounted machine guns the differences become significantly less.

So let's say I'm in a F6F and only hit with the left side guns.  That's still 3 .50's nearly converged; plenty to take off a wing.  If I'm in a Spit hitting with one side a single 20mm Hispano can do the trick.  With a hub mounted 30mm like the K-4, it doesn't really matter where convergence is set.  One hit, one kill.  And the beauty is, if I'm tracking a con and can't close beyond 800-1000 I've got the best set-up possible to make him pay at that distance (I get several kills per camp at 1000 yards).

In close on snapshots I often see hits on the cockpit and see a wing coming off before the plane explodes.  In fact, fuselage/wing combos are quite common with long convergences in close, and almost always result in either the loss of a wing or a pilot death.

Finally, and an important point, is that I've also got the best possible set-up for buff killing.  I learned to hit and kill buffs from 800+ in the FW190 using the 30mm's and I actually do better at distances with the 30mm than most.  Having a chance to bring them up close and personal is just a bonus.

As I always say, I think it's just a matter of personal preference and what you're used to.

I always use point convergences.  I view staggered convergence as almost planned spray and prey.  I'll explain a little in the first paragraph below while I make a couple of other points in regards to convergence and gunnery overall:

With convergence set at 650 in the worst case scenario (wing guns), then at 1300 yards (beyond where you can even hit), the bullet spread is theoretically the same distance between the guns on your plane (bullets converge then spread back out).  The shorter the convergence setting, the more the bullet spread at the same distance, so shorter convergences force you to not only come in closer, but also limit how far out you can be to deliver a fatal blow.  This is also true for spread or zoned convergences, limiting the shortest set guns.

The final points I'll make as to gunnery are patience and conservation.  Learn to get behind and stay behind your opponent and wait for the shot you want.  As long as you can saddle up and can stay there it will eventually come.  I'm not saying don't take snapshots if the opportunity presents itself but when you do, as with any shot, use short bursts on the trigger.  If you're tracking, then burst, adjust and burst again.  Never hold the trigger down longer than a second (two at the most).

[EDIT]  Finally, take everything I say with a grain of salt as I AM opposed to the majority on this issue.  It's just what I'm used to.

[Ghosth]

http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/convergence2/convergence2.htm
As do why I don't like pushing convergence out past 350 yards.

Cannons in general have lower muzzle velocity's, shoot in a much bigger arc than .50's or .30 cal machine guns for example. Pushing the aim point from 250 out to 400 and past doubles the difficulty in making the shot. Actually it probably quadruples it. That is not to say an old wise AH pilot such as yourself can't do it.
Its just not what I would recommend for someone starting. Or if your having any kind of  shooting problems.
Learning to shoot with cannons that far out, assuming your shooting at your convergence point.
Is going to be several orders of magnitude harder than learning to shoot and hit at 250 - 300.

Also, on a wing mounted cannon, if I have convergence set to 250, those cannons will still if needed shoot out to 500 and be hitting roughly the same place they are mounted. On a bomber sized target you could probably extend that to 600.  So if I can still hit long shots, and can easier hit short shots, what is the advantage to setting convergience for cannons out past 350??

In fact the iL2 with 37mm cannons is very capable of hitting even fighter sized aircraft well beyond 1k.
And I do push convergence for it out to 500. But it is not a plane that I would recommend for someone learning to fly.

Next there are just about as many different theory's on convergience as there are AH pilots.
Even the AH trainers pages list 3, and all 3 are quite different.

So tell me Bald, do you really shoot cannons at maneuvering targets 500 out and farther?

By reading your thread I see that quite often you are probably using cannons to hit Bomber Formations at extreme ranges. Which would make sense actually, targets are 2 - 3 times as big as the average fighter.
And by hitting with cannons from farther out you gain several advantages. But again, its not going to be as productive for someone still learning the basics.

The question is are you really shooting at and hitting maneuvering targets at extreme ranges with cannons?
Or are you shooting at longer ranges at targets that have not started trying to dodge your attack. Surprising them by shooting at considerably longer ranges than they expect?

I suspect your very good at ambushing people who are not expecting you to fire at those ranges.
So as long as it works for you, go with it.

"I think about it like this; if, in the worst case scenario, I have wing mounted guns, then they will be firing inward from that point no matter what the convergence is set to. "

As long as convergience is set past 400, and you never shoot past 600, this is true.
I have managed several kills on aircraft out to 1.5k with the iL2 with  cannon convergience set very long.
And yes it works a charm on GV's. But I don't consider that a "normal" case. The iL2 37mm have excellent ballistics, very low dispersion. And it only takes a single hit to knock a wing off an enemy fighter.

You can not say the same about almost any other cannon in the game. Yak9t btw has the same gun as a single nose mounted cannon. And it too does very well set out to longer ranges. But I consider these the exceptions to the rule, not the average.

[BaldEagl]

So tell me Bald, do you really shoot cannons at maneuvering targets 500 out and farther?

Occasionally but rarely.  If they are in a smooth break pattern or if they are running and stick-stirring then yes.

By reading your thread I see that quite often you are probably using cannons to hit Bomber Formations at extreme ranges. Which would make sense actually, targets are 2 - 3 times as big as the average fighter.
And by hitting with cannons from farther out you gain several advantages. But again, its not going to be as productive for someone still learning the basics.

True.  When buff hunting I normally open fire at 800.

The question is are you really shooting at and hitting maneuvering targets at extreme ranges with cannons?

See above.

Or are you shooting at longer ranges at targets that have not started trying to dodge your attack. Surprising them by shooting at considerably longer ranges than they expect?

I suspect your very good at ambushing people who are not expecting you to fire at those ranges.
So as long as it works for you, go with it.

Yes to both... ambushing the unsuspecting and taking out runners who don't think I can hit at those distances.



As I said, my normal range to open fire is 400 but my convergence settings allow me great flexibility in either extending or shortning that range.  The actual range at which I do take a shot is entirely situation dependent.

I did also add the disclaimer: Take everything I say with a grain of salt as I AM opposed to the majority on this issue.

 

[Ghosth]

Right 

Well I don't mind the typing, keeps my fingers nimble. 

Just curious what screen resolution are you using to get good hits at that distance?

[BaldEagl]

Just curious what screen resolution are you using to get good hits at that distance?

1680x1050 on an LG 22" Widescreen LCD with all game settings maxed, high res textures and 16x antialiasing and 16x anistropic filtering set in the Nvidia control panal.  The game is crystal clear locked to 59 fps (my monitor's refresh rate) with vsync enabled.

[Masherbrum]

 

[AWwrgwy]

Is there an easier method than fiddling with the in hangar conv settings?
a .DOT. command that works say? 

S

...which would allow you to change convergence in flight.  I don't see it happening.


wrongway