What does it take to perk?

[BnZs]

It's faster ,

Right on the deck up to 2.5K, the top speed of the F4U-1D is somewhat (about 10mph) greater. From approximately 2.5K to ~12K, the SpitXVI is slightly faster. Above 20K, the SpitXVI takes the speed crown back. According to Dokgonzos, the non-flaps turn radius of the Spit16 is much smaller than the non-flaps radius F4U. The full flaps radius of the Spit16 compared to the full flaps radius of the F4U-1D is almost as small. Yes, I know the F4U's flaps can be brought into play sooner than the Spit's, however, this is something to think about, is it not? Furthermore, turn rate as opposed to radius plainly goes to the Spit, as does obviously climb rate.

Funny you mention E-retention. I did some zoom climb tests on many planes in the set awhile back, seeing how much alt they would regain in a zoom from the deck@400mph IAS. I don't remember exactly where the SpitXVI stacked up, but I clearly remember there was less than 1000 feet, (feet, not yards) difference between them.

No doubt the F4U is a tough nut to crack,still the lethargic climb and acceleration of the F4Us is a more exploitable weakness than the fact that the SpitXVI is slower than a few late war planes.

See thats what you sound like.

What you sound like is a man who came to the argument without all the facts, and finding himself loosing, is now trying to goad. As I prophesied earlier, it is nice to be right on that account as well.

[Bronk]

No doubt the F4U is a tough nut to crack,still the lethargic climb and acceleration of the F4Us is a more exploitable weakness than the fact that the SpitXVI is slower than a few late war planes.

A few ehh

OTD that are faster
La-7

Fw 190D-9
Typhoon
Bf 109K4
P-51D
P-47N
F4U-1A
Ta 152H
F4U-1
P-51B
La-5FN
F4U-1D
F4U-1C
Yak-9U
Bf 109G-14
Fw 190A-8
Fw 190F-8
P-47D-11
P-38L
P3-38J
P-47D-40

[Anaxogoras]

In Aces High, zoom climb is a poor measure of pure energy retention.  The correct way to test the latter is to fly to a certain speed, shut the engine off, and measure the time it takes to decelerate to e.g. 150mph.

I tested zoom climbs a little bit once and the SpitXVI outzooms the P-38J/L, which holds energy much better using the test outlined above.  Within the performance ranges we have in the game, powerloading counts more for zoom climb than energy retention.

[Anaxogoras]

Bronk, the P-47D-40 is not faster than the Spitfire XVI.  The P-38J/L and the 47D-11 are a hair faster.

Crowding the list with similar variants does have a nice visual impact, though...it's almost persuasive.

Here are the zscores for speed at sea level:
Tempest   1.78
LA7   1.58
190D-9   1.39
F4U-4   1.32
Typhoon   1.29
109 K-4   1.16
P47N   1.09
P51D   1.06
TA152   0.96
Spit XIV   0.93
F4U-1   0.83
F4U-1A   0.83
P51B   0.83
YAK 9U   0.83
LA5   0.80
109 G-14   0.76
F4U-1C   0.67
F4U-1D   0.67
190A-8   0.57
190F-8   0.57
P47D-11   0.44
P38J   0.41
P38L   0.41
KI84   0.37
P47D-25   0.37
P47D-40   0.37
Spit XVI   0.37
109 G-2   0.31
190A-5   0.24
Mossie   0.21
Spit VIII   0.21
109 G-6   0.14
109 F-4   0.05
C205   0.01
F6F   -0.05
YAK 9T   -0.12
P-39Q   -0.15
N1K2   -0.18
P38G   -0.18
Spit IX   -0.38
110 G   -0.51
C202   -0.51
KI61   -0.67
P-39D   -0.80
Spit V   -0.87
Seafire IIC   -0.90
Spit I   -0.97
FM2   -1.00
110 C   -1.07
P40E   -1.10
109 E-4   -1.26
A6M5   -1.36
F4F   -1.59
P40B   -1.82
Hurri IIC   -1.88
A6M2   -2.05
Hurri IID   -2.18
Hurri I   -2.31

[BnZs]

Your list is incorrect regarding the P-38L and the P-47D-40 below 10K. The 190A8 and F8 are faster only right on the deck and then only marginally(5mph). The P-47D-11 is all of 2mph faster on the deck, and otherwise slower up to about 13K. If you are going to argue with me, at least take the time to learn the facts first.

A few ehh

OTD that are faster
La-7

Fw 190D-9
Typhoon
Bf 109K4
P-51D
P-47N
F4U-1A
Ta 152H
F4U-1
P-51B
La-5FN
F4U-1D
F4U-1C
Yak-9U
Bf 109G-14
Fw 190A-8
Fw 190F-8
P-47D-11
P-38L
P3-38J
P-47D-40

[BnZs]

Anax, that is very interesting, but zoom climb with the engine actually running is a far more practical test IMHO.

In Aces High, zoom climb is a poor measure of pure energy retention.  The correct way to test the latter is to fly to a certain speed, shut the engine off, and measure the time it takes to decelerate to e.g. 150mph.

I tested zoom climbs a little bit once and the SpitXVI outzooms the P-38J/L, which holds energy much better using the test outlined above.  Within the performance ranges we have in the game, powerloading counts more for zoom climb than energy retention.

[uptown]

All these stats make my head hurt  

[Anaxogoras]

Zscore for best speed <10k ft:

Tempest   1.72
109 K-4   1.55
190D-9   1.45
P51D   1.41
Spit XIV   1.28
F4U-4   1.14
LA7   1.14
P47N   1.14
P51B   1.14
109 G-14   0.98
Typhoon   0.98
F4U-1   0.88
F4U-1A   0.88
YAK 9U   0.88
TA152   0.74
Spit XVI   0.64
Spit IX   0.54
F4U-1C   0.50
F4U-1D   0.50
LA5   0.50
P47D-11   0.47
Spit VIII   0.47
P38J   0.30
P-39Q   0.30
P38L   0.30
P47D-25   0.30
P47D-40   0.27
190A-5   0.17
KI84   0.17
109 G-2   0.13
109 G-6   0.13
Mossie   0.13
C205   0.07
190A-8   0.07
190F-8   0.07
109 F-4   -0.04
N1K2   -0.14
P38G   -0.20
YAK 9T   -0.34
F6F   -0.37
KI61   -0.47
P-39D   -0.47
110 G   -0.54
C202   -0.54
Seafire IIC   -0.71
Spit V   -0.71
Spit I   -0.81
P40E   -0.88
A6M5   -1.05
109 E-4   -1.22
110 C   -1.38
P40B   -1.62
Hurri IIC   -1.72
FM2   -1.86
A6M2   -1.89
Hurri IID   -2.06
F4F   -2.16
Hurri I   -2.16

[Bronk]

Now do it for best top speed  regardless of alt.

[Anaxogoras]

Now do it for best top speed at regardless of alt.

You mean True Air Speed?  That will range from altitudes of 12k-30k ft, which is a pretty wide sweep and I'm not sure how significant that data set would be.

[Krusty]

This should be easier to read:



It matches all speeds save for the F4U1 (fastest of all F4u1 models, the 1/1A outruns the 1C/1D by at about 5-10mph)

Also note that WHILE it matches their top speed it can turn inside them by unimaginable leaps, and climbs ALMOST FIVE THOUSAND FEET PER MINUTE up to 8k, while chasing them down. Anywhere inside 800 it can kill or disable any other plane in front of it with a single hispano round (be it lucky or otherwise).

P.S. After the climb rate drops from almost 5000 fpm, it settles at a "modest" 4100 fpm or so all the way up to 20k, just about. Most planes in this game are proud if they make 3500 fpm at sea level, let alone 20,000 feet above it.

Taking it one step further let's explore some of the more common late war "monsters":



EDIT: Note the F4u1D only is faster than the spit16 below 2k, ram air effect or something. It drops significantly to match the spit16 up to the first peak then the spit16 is faster above this

Gee... I'm seeing a recurring pattern here. All but the FASTEST of planes will be chased down. Even those faster than it can and will be caught with the super acceleration rates the spit has, and even a slight dive will give the spit more speed than it ever should have, and it will keep said speed for ungodly long periods of time. I've caught fleeing P51Ds and LA7s in a spit16 before, all you need is to nose down.

Once you're in guns range and they break, well the fight's over then and there.


Edit: Fixed something I worded poorly

[Bronk]

You mean True Air Speed?  That will range from altitudes of 12k-30k ft, which is a pretty wide sweep and I'm not sure how significant that data set would be.

Yes true air speed. We are allowed to fly at any alt I guess that would make it significant.

[Anaxogoras]

Yes true air speed. We are allowed to fly at any alt I guess that would make it significant.

Oh yeah, you'll find me at 40k in my 47N.   Anyway, here ya go:

P47N   1.86
109 K-4   1.57
TA152   1.57
F4U-4   1.54
Spit XIV   1.49
P51B   1.38
P51D   1.25
P47D-11   1.04
190D-9   1.01
Tempest   1.01
P47D-25   0.99
P47D-40   0.99
P38J   0.69
P38L   0.69
F4U-1   0.56
F4U-1A   0.56
Spit IX   0.53
YAK 9U   0.53
F4U-1C   0.45
F4U-1D   0.45
190A-5   0.45
LA7   0.45
Spit XVI   0.45
Typhoon   0.45
109 G-14   0.40
109 G-2   0.37
C205   0.32
190A-8   0.32
190F-8   0.29
Spit VIII   0.27
P38G   0.19
109 F-4   0.05
109 G-6   0.00
KI84   -0.05
LA5   -0.05
F6F   -0.21
P-39Q   -0.29
Mossie   -0.45
C202   -0.48
KI61   -0.58
110 G   -0.61
N1K2   -0.61
Seafire IIC   -0.61
Spit V   -0.61
YAK 9T   -0.74
P-39D   -0.85
Spit I   -0.90
P40E   -1.11
A6M5   -1.14
109 E-4   -1.27
110 C   -1.27
P40B   -1.41
A6M2   -1.67
Hurri IIC   -1.67
Hurri I   -1.81
FM2   -1.88
Hurri IID   -1.94
F4F   -1.99

[Krusty]

Yes true air speed. We are allowed to fly at any alt I guess that would make it significant.

You want a comparison of TAS? Here's the TAS and climb rates at those alts for the last 4 planes I compared:



Frankly, the spit16 holds all the cards considering the accleration and climb rate of the F4u1, which cancel out its few-mph-advantage.

[uptown]

stupid stat posting twits! The whole lot of ya couldn't balance my checkbook