Author Topic: 30mm damage  (Read 17678 times)

Offline Shuffler

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Re: 30mm damage
« Reply #195 on: September 09, 2009, 10:40:39 AM »
I took out 2 lancs on one pass last night using only 50s.... lag rolled and killed the 3rd.
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Offline moot

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Re: 30mm damage
« Reply #196 on: September 09, 2009, 10:52:07 AM »
the greater blast effect of the M-Geschoss was countered by the greater penetration and kinetic damage inflicted by the Hispano. They do indeed emerge with similar scores.
And in AH the guns' lethality is averaged from ammo belt composition, if hearsay (from years ago) is correct.  The MG151 20mm is supposed to suffer more from this than the Hispano round.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: 30mm damage
« Reply #197 on: September 09, 2009, 11:56:48 AM »
And in AH the guns' lethality is averaged from ammo belt composition, if hearsay (from years ago) is correct.  The MG151 20mm is supposed to suffer more from this than the Hispano round.
That is as I understand it too.

If we got belts then the Hispano would hardly be effected, but the 151/20 would hit significantly softer on about 75% of hits and much harder, harder than a Hispano, on about 25% of hits.

I don't support the idea of player selected belts as the obvious one for the 151/20 armed aircraft would simply be 100% M-Geschoss rounds, something never done in reality to the best of my knowledge.
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Offline moot

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Re: 30mm damage
« Reply #198 on: September 09, 2009, 12:26:33 PM »
Players could have selection of historical belt choices.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: 30mm damage
« Reply #199 on: September 09, 2009, 02:53:24 PM »
Players could have selection of historical belt choices.
That I would fully support.
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Offline mechanic

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Re: 30mm damage
« Reply #200 on: September 09, 2009, 05:27:30 PM »
While this may be true - that other ammo types suffer the same issue - it's the impact on gameplay that makes the 30mm duds more noticable.  Consider the ratio. 

If one or two rounds ends up being a "dud" in a Typhoon, thats fine, because you just let loose 80 20mm's.  The other 78 rounds will do the trick.

If one or two rounds is all youre firing, thats a problem.  Enter 30mm.


 I see what you're saying but let's makeit equal. To fire 80 rounds of hispano from the quads on the typh would take about the same time as firing two or maybe even three taters. If that was the case you would be very unlucky to find 3 dud taters in the same burst.

 To take it to an equal level for a single 30mm round you would have to consider a quad hispano snapshot. Around only 20-30  round fired in a crossing snapshot? With a good aim, a generous hit% of 50% for the snapshot; say we land 15 rounds of 20mm. Lets say 1/3 of those 20mm are 'dud' then we land 10 rounds of 20mm.  This should still make a kill in convergence but a hit ratio of 50% is still not certain from the offset. It would be fair to say that true snapshots even in convergence are a 50-50 thing with 20mm even using a perfect aim from the pilot.

 On the 30mm side this snapshot only allow time for 1 tater, or maybe a 2 round burst with good stick control, lets say 1. Lets also asume that 1/3 taters is dud. The 30mm hit % from a 'perfect aim' pilot is 100% for this snapshot. Therefore 2/3 is a kill for this snapshot with 30mm which is higher than the typh for a true snapshot oppertunity.  In reality the dud 30mm must be more like 1 in 25? I dont know.

 All speculation of course, only point being that this issue may not be purely 30mm related. It could even be as simple as the intended dud 30mm hit sprites looking the same as the explosions.
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Offline grizz441

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Re: 30mm damage
« Reply #201 on: September 09, 2009, 06:32:43 PM »
The boss must not know either...

Offline BillyD

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Re: 30mm damage
« Reply #202 on: September 09, 2009, 07:33:14 PM »
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: 30mm damage
« Reply #203 on: September 09, 2009, 09:16:46 PM »
Billy, that link crashed my browser! :huh
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Offline moot

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Re: 30mm damage
« Reply #204 on: September 09, 2009, 09:34:52 PM »
Works here..
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Offline grizz441

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Re: 30mm damage
« Reply #205 on: September 10, 2009, 01:41:23 AM »
Billy, that link crashed my browser! :huh

save target as

Offline Charge

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Re: 30mm damage
« Reply #206 on: September 10, 2009, 04:30:28 AM »
"Players could have selection of historical belt choices."

I'm not sure what that means. As far as I have understood the belt compositions and instructions were recommendations only by Reichslufts ministeriet (as in Galland's Schiessfibel) so practically a pilot could request the armourers to load what ever kind of belting they pleased.

However, there are several (default) beltings that I have read somewhere that were used in LW planes after introduction of Minengeshoss:

20mm:

AP-HE-HE-MG (early)

AP-HE(T)-MG-MG (mid)

API-I-MG (late, bombers)

API-I-MG-MG-MG (late, fighters etc)

30mm:

MG-I


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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: 30mm damage
« Reply #207 on: September 10, 2009, 05:47:52 AM »
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Offline moot

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Re: 30mm damage
« Reply #208 on: September 10, 2009, 06:27:09 AM »
"Players could have selection of historical belt choices."

I'm not sure what that means. As far as I have understood the belt compositions and instructions were recommendations only by Reichslufts ministeriet (as in Galland's Schiessfibel) so practically a pilot could request the armourers to load what ever kind of belting they pleased.
I mean whatever configurations could be found in records..  Is there evidence that pilots actually used every cfg?  The least useful once at least, could be ommitted in such a loadout choice.
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: 30mm damage
« Reply #209 on: September 10, 2009, 06:36:57 AM »
www.dasmuppets.com/public/billyd/invincible f4f.ahf

4 tater hits no damage
Billy I only saw 1 tator hit 3 mg hits with it....FM2s,P47s would probably be the only fighters to be able to "eat" a 30mm :salute
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