Author Topic: Disable F3 view  (Read 5083 times)

Offline BnZs

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2009, 09:41:03 AM »
Ding ding.

There is no reason the IL-2 needs to have the F3 view.  It is being abused and it allows the IL-2 to be that much more effective.  If the IL-2 is able to have it, then why not the Hurricane IID? 

How many rear gunners does the HurriIID have?
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Offline moot

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2009, 09:44:07 AM »
Rebel I was only half kidding.  I figure the drone of engines and lack of radio eqpt on top of air masks and headset on the crew and/or pilot would really get in the way of comms. If they could talk to each other, esp if by radio rather than mouth (shout) to ear telegram, then having external views is closer to reality than not having them. That's for larger crew bombers, though. I don't think Il2s ought to have it.  Ju88s should, so should TBMs.. etc.
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2009, 09:48:38 AM »
Quote
IL2's are certainly capable of defendng themselves, but not in a conventional sense.  You see them upping from capped bases w/o fighter hangars all the time, utilizing the F3 view to time wierd neg-G maneuvers, and maneuver as though they could look through the airframe itself.


IL2s are so absurdly helpless to well flown fighter planes. Or, they should be. The fact that they aren't in the game points more to laziness and terrible ACM on the part of fighter sticks then it does the capability of the IL2. Any maneuver performed in the IL2 can be done in any fighter as well, less the fighter "stick dance". The IL2 doesn't stick dance well, "otherwise known as stick jerking". I have a couple of tricks to evade fighters, "and I assume they did in real life to". But the truth is you might have one tight roll in them and then they are to slow. And you cant fight them to far off the deck because they dont fight in the vertical well at all. When slow they wallow like pigs, which is why I never take internal ords up in them. It makes a bad situation worse.

Boy if your having a hard time fighting IL2s ATA then you seriously need some T/A time. The things are so slow yesterday I pointed one at a GV base, then shaved, downloaded, showered, AND, clipped my nails. Finishing in plenty of time to grab the stick as it puttered in and killed a bunch of GVs.

9 out of 10 fighters I shoot down are done so because "they" choose to HO an armored, heavily armed, attack plane. And no doubt as they fell to cartoon earth they decried the bloody, commie IL2 and its F3 views.
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Offline shreck

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2009, 09:50:23 AM »
F3 view ABSOLUTELY helps with SA by far!!!!! and timing. Yes! crews had radios to alert others as to the threats, BUT it was not nearly as valuable as having the pilots eyes on the situation. fear, stress, fatigue all contributed to the intercrew comunications. F3 view allows a very unatural advantage to SA and if it was bisabled for all but 4 engine bombers, you would find far less uber IL2s and A20s! the way it should be!!

Offline Rebel

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2009, 10:18:39 AM »
Rebel I was only half kidding.  I figure the drone of engines and lack of radio eqpt on top of air masks and headset on the crew and/or pilot would really get in the way of comms. If they could talk to each other, esp if by radio rather than mouth (shout) to ear telegram, then having external views is closer to reality than not having them. That's for larger crew bombers, though. I don't think Il2s ought to have it.  Ju88s should, so should TBMs.. etc.

So maybe planes with a crew larger then 2?  Would that make sense?  TBM's had 3, JU88's had 3 (maybe 4?  I forget), SBD's don't need it, IL2's don't either.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 10:24:36 AM by Rebel »
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Offline moot

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2009, 10:32:04 AM »
It'll have to be HTC's arbitrary.  I would say a good rule of thumb is just how much sighting coverage the crew could manage, of the full sphere around the plane.
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Offline shreck

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2009, 10:44:03 AM »
No matter how you slice it, with F3 view Any bomber has better views than Any fighter--<------something just not cool with that!

Offline Coogan

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2009, 10:48:31 AM »
Even pressing all gunner position keys at light speed, you're still only seeing one pair of eyes at a time. That's less than they had.
Pressing the trigger should toggle back to F1 view, though.

I'm all for this idea.  Either switch to F1 when the trigger is pulled,  or at least disable the ability to fire any weapon at all, while in F3 view.  IMO, F3 should be for SA only, not dropping ords.

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Offline Getback

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2009, 11:34:22 AM »
I'd like to see f3 removed from attack/bombers.

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Offline Karnak

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2009, 01:11:23 PM »
4 engines- keep it, but anything 2 engine or single, take it away.  Being abused to the point of arcadey lameness.
Why?  Does a Ki-67 or Ju88 not have guys looking out from multiple positions?
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Offline BnZs

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2009, 04:09:54 PM »
It sounds like the redout model is what needs tweaking, not F3 view.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Hungry

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2009, 05:52:23 PM »
I'm all for this idea.  Either switch to F1 when the trigger is pulled,  or at least disable the ability to fire any weapon at all, while in F3 view.  IMO, F3 should be for SA only, not dropping ords.

Coogan

Spot on Coogan no gunfire in F3 mode
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Offline stroker71

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2009, 07:21:33 PM »
I don't know how anyone could accurately drop ords from the F3 view.  Unless it was in a lanstuka carpet bombing...which is a whole new thread and lame as well.  I don't do it because I don't like it being done to me.  Goes back to what Mom and Dad taught me..."treat others like you want to be treated"...thought They were lame then but it makes alot of sence now.  I need the gun sight to line up my target...because I use the one target one bomb method. 
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2009, 07:59:37 PM »
How many rear gunners does the HurriIID have?

Point being, both planes are flown the same as air vs GV attack aircraft in the same manner.  Last I knew, most IL-2 pilots dont even take up ord anymore since there is no reasosn to as the 37mm opens up any and all gv's like a sardine can.  The rear gunner on an IL-2 is no different than the rear gunner on a Bf110: worthless.  The rear gunner position gives the aircraft it's 360d view, the F3 mode shouldnt.

I used to have the stance that only 4 engine aircraft should be able to F3, but now I am more about if the plane is level bombing capable.  IMO, if the aircraft has the capability to level bomb via a bomb sight then it should be able to have the F3 view.  If not, then it is a direct attack or fighter aircraft only and the pilot and the single rear gunner view is all it gets.  That means the IL-2 and the A20 would both lose the ability to F3.  (I can hear the snifflin' and cryin' beginning now).  Neither of those 2 aircraft need the F3 view and both are afforded advantages in their realm by having the capability to F3.  Neither have more than 1 guy looking out the rear angles so why give them F3 capability???
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Offline stroker71

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2009, 08:09:00 PM »
GO jump in an A20 and look back!  If you jump to gunner your a sitting duck because you can't control the AC from there and the gun is useless.
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