Canadians! Your choice for RCAF markings?

[eye]

If you have copies of his diaries i would be greatly interested in seeing them. Simply that book was terrible. You can find good portrayals of him in j johnsons biography. A local guy who lives 2 miles from  me j billings wrote  a book called  A naive in knights in spitfires. Beurling was a french canadian. You know they were 2nd class at that time? They were treated that way. If he had hostility to some in the rcaf it was because of this. Simply the rcaf in the early years of ww2 was a class based organization. This was not even covered it the book Buzz <The Buzz beurling story>. Nor was the fact given as to why he was a loner.  Partly because he broke formation but more in my opinion because he did not drink and considered it a poison. Not to drink after a fight in my opinion was more of a sin to those he flew with than any other thing. It made them feel weak. As far as loseing wing man with odds of 8 to 1 you would lose some too. You think fighting jg 77 / jg 26 and the pik a's was easy.? The italins though easier were there to kill him too. If you read about him at malta you find when he was finaly shot down loseing part of his foot it was going to the help of his wing man. In fact early in his stay his co took him aside and made it clear you fight in pairs. He did with great results. Beurling was a prima dona after his tour of canada i will give you that. But he was saddled with a bad co in the form of wing comander hugh godefroy a 7 kill ace who was obviously afraid of loseing control of his power. Beurling never had a prob with mcnair or jonson. but when a co of lesser ablity came they were at odds. If you read that book you soon see almost all of the people who were talked to were from 403 or 401 squads rcaf. Why not from 249 because many were dead thats why. Not from being his wingman either. Beurling had friends and respect in the raf not the rcaf. He was canada's best by far. He was misunderstood. In fact so bad its not funny he was a brave canadian a excellent marksmen a professional in every way. If he made mistakes in his life it was this 1 to tell off the commanding general of the rcaf 2 to resist promotion he could of had his own wing and thus avoided his probs with godefroy 3 he died in 48, with the years if he lived the bad blood between himself and the rcaf may have gone away. Time heals all wounds. This post just touches the surface Beurling was a hero and a anti hero at the same time. One of the few wartime aces who were complex and not hidden by a facade of wartime propoganda.

[eye]

LOL i just read my post can you tell i spent some time studying the guy <S> to you all nice to see im not the only one who know about him.

[Pongo]

Good post.
Mcnair hated him too. but I bet you have alot of valid points there. I wouldnt count JEJ as one of his supporters either. Too a certain extent history is written by the survivors.

------------------
CO
Sturm Crows

[eye]

Id have to disagee on onn either of them hateing him ive never seen anything by either that said that.

[eye]

Sorrow where you get a copy of his diary? I have seen pictures of his black book with shooting angles etc but never a diary. I would love to know where so i could get a copy of them myself.

[Sorrow[S=A]]

Whew, alot you wrote their eye, I have to say some punctuation would help me read it  

His diary is available by writing his family. They still live in the same city in Quebec, there is also a version available to the public via the war archives. I reccomend searching the Canadian war archives for a version first. The difference between the two are very slight.

  First: wingmen..  Sorry to pop your bubble. He was not fighting 8 to 1 and he wasn't up against germans either at malta. His malta kills were mostly italian. He lost wingmen because he would go haring off like an bellybutton after easy kills or engage on suicidal manuevers then duck out, leaving his wingman unprotected. This BTW is not the way to make friends...  After a short period of time they stuck him in a vic with another pair of fighters and ignored him after they engaged.

  He was shot down, losing part of his foot, not helping a wingman but rather by engaging a group of italian fighters below a bomber wing. After shooting one down he was forced to break off and run when several higher fighters engaged him. Over the water his plane had a wing damaged and went into a spin. There was no wingman in the vicinity, they weren't giving him one anymore by that time!

  As for JEJ's opinion of him, it's clearly stated in his book Wing leader. JeJ thought he was an uncontrollable twit. Mostly after having him use a tiger moth to buzz the field for hours.

Hugh Godfrey was hardly incompetent. He was a great pilot and excellent leader. He just had no patience with a fool who couldn't stay where he was supposed to be and refused to work as a team player. Add in the fact Buerling's infamous 190 kill embarassed him in the middle of a room of pilots and well....
(This was BTW after Buerling managed to seperate from a flight, kill a 190 and return without being noticed. He then reported it as an afterthought. Godfrey thought he was a liar and had the guncam film played. Which clearly showed him killing a 190)

  And finally, buerling did duck responsibility like crazy. No-one knows really why he eveded promotions, except that he was terribly insecure. He really didn't feel he deserved the recognition he got. As for that bit about the rcaf hating him? a defenite YES! but it wasn't because he was french canadian or a non-drinker. It was because he gave them his honest (and brutal) opinion of them. This is a surefire way of getting people to mislike you!

[eye]

Excellent post. Now my rebutal A the reason that he lost wingman was this the spiral climb out. On a scramble few could match him he would get above the germans up sun if possible.Why could they not match him? Because he took the time to know the people who did his guns And the condition of the plane he was flying. Once he was good he got first pick and knew which plane would get him highest the fastest. While others goofed off drinking or relaxing he was working on his next mission. A true professional. This is what i admire most about him. I feel he learned this early in the airport he haunted as kid and as a bush pilot.His tactics were this attack out of the sun with as much alt and speed as possible .Line up 2 or more and shoot as close as possible. Often he would yes come up under in a blind spot but he would never fight at a disadvantage in alt if possible. Often because raids were so large his ammo would be gone in one or two passes at most. Then dive to malta's ack which was the best in the world at the time equal to any in this game.Beurling not being loved i agree with you on. You ever read the official history of the RCAF? It simply lists his kills on the days he got them at malta. But thats in itself amazing. As far as italians they were good and simply put fighting german and italians would be tougher than fighting any allied flyiers. Rember this was mid 42 till october. Not 44 and 45 when much of the best in the luftwaffe were gone. As far a Godefroy i must admit he was not a bad commander you are right.Fighter pilots are competitive by nature. It was his professional jealousy and fear of loseing control of his wing that he blew it in my opinion. The fight you mentioned was a classic example of how bad 403 was at that time. For the best ace in the RCAF to be put in tail end charlie is in my opinion a mistake. A arogant mistake at that. I laugh every time ive read that he was able to do  that get into a fight, kill a 190 and get back into position with out one guy seeing him. I know how poor that squad was just by the fact he was able to do that. Im not saying all Canadians at that time stunk but for him to pull that off shows how much that squad needed him at that time. Beurling blew it with promotions i agree he could of had his own wing i bet if he would of played it different. You know why he didnt want to lead men in battle? His deep religious background. Today we would say he was raised in a cult. He simply did not want to order others to kill it was a sin if he was going to break gods commandments he would  only do it himself. Thinking this way hurt those who needed hishelp in 403 and 412. You do know he was gunnery officer at a otu and helped many improve the skills that would keep them alive? Ive read many times that he would talk shop and help anyone who asked. You think that did not save lives? The simple fact is this he was a loner. If it was forced upon himself or self induced is debateable. Was he loved certainly not. Was he a prima donna after his warbond/sex tour? Certainly. Was he the best Canadian? Mcleod was close but everything ive ever read said he was special a cut above. Ask youself this who in the commonwealth forces was better? Gray maybe jj no way, Sailor Malan? Maybe. As a pure fighter pilot who's better?                                                 P.S. I apologize for the poor speling and grammer. Some times my dyslexia gets the best of me. Thanks for the tip on the diary i will try to get a copy of one. Btw one last thing what are you doing with one? You write that book? BUZZ

[gatt]

We italians know quite well Screwball and I have red some good books about him.
Some reports are quite sickening, indeed. I mean the way he talked about his kills and victims. But I understand that Malta has been one of the toughest theatres of air-war.
He was a tuff guy and an outstanding ace for sure.

Italian pilots' work was indeed tuff. They were good pilots but had little or no fight-training. They had very bad radios and no radar control. They flew Macchi C.200 (875hp), C.202 and Reggiane 2001, both engined with 1,150hp DB601. All had light armament. Everytime I read something about it I feel sick.

I like very much this book:
   

and the two from C.Shores:
Malta: The Spitfire Year, 1942
Malta: The Hurricanes Years, 1940-41


[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 06-13-2000).]

[eye]

Gatt Beurling had nitemares the rest of his life about blowing off the head of a italian ace. He talked a good game in public,acted the cold hearted killer. In private he would wake from his sleep screaming seeing the blood pumping out of the neck and streaming down the side of the plane. I have often wondered if he suffered from post tramatic stress disorder. From the stories from his family sure sounded as if he did.Btw thanks for the tip on the book im going to check it out ive never seen it

[gatt]

EYE,   Here is something from him you probably know:

 

"The Eyeties are comparatively easy to shoot down. Oh, they're brave enough. In fact, I think the Eyeties have more courage than the Germans, but their tactics aren't so good. They are very good gliders, but they try to do clever acrobatics and looping. But they will stick it even if things are going against them, whereas the Jerries will run."

Sadly, he was right. We lost tons of pilots over Malta due to bad tactics. <S> to our pilots and RAF foes.

In AH arenas we can fly our Macchis (we 4°Stormo I mean) the right way, tho  .

Anyway, take a look here:
 http://www.accessweb.com/users/mconstab/beurling.htm  

   




[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 06-13-2000).]

[funked]

While were on the subject, does anyone know what kind of victory markings were used by the RAF for Italian kills?

Here's what I'm using now for 308 Sqn:
 

[gatt]

Victory markings on italians fighters were very rare. They were painted on rudder fin.

Victories were awarded to the whole squad insted of individuals.

I'll try to scan and post some rare examples of markings painted on aces' mounts.

<S> Funked!

[Creamo]

If it wasn't for RUSH, the United States would have nuked Canada.  

Well, then again, its just cold and boring there, so we might have figured that into everything. (Cept Vancouver, I get good Canadian fur there everytime!)

THe UNITED STATES saved everyones bellybutton in WWII, but if you need a few wacky paintjobs to make ya feel better...go ahead. Canada was hardly a force, kindalike the Italians.

It's not very historically balanced giving you paint jobs before Hellcats and such, as the asswhippin was done by the the Yanks. Therefore we deserve new stuff first.

Love and Peace,

Creamo

[gatt]

Canada, like France, Australia, New Zealand, Poland ... and yes even Italy WERE forces.
It is more than enuff to have them represented in a modern and open minded flight sim  

[Nashwan]

He is joking isn't he? I mean, nobody can be THAT thick, can they?