Which submodel of the P-38L do we have in AH?

[gripen]

So, does Warren Bodie claim in his books that P-47Ds were routinedly hot rodded for above 2500hp ratings, P-38Ls were setted quietly for the 3200rpm or there were something higher grade fuel than the 100/130 (or it's variants) available for the P-38L during war?
If so, is there some hard evidence (other than oral) which could be verified? Like microfilms in the NARA or something.

gripen

PS. I knew this was going be huge waste of bandwidth.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by gripen:
So, does Warren Bodie claim in his books that P-47Ds were routinedly hot rodded for above 2500hp ratings, P-38Ls were setted quietly for the 3200rpm or there were something higher grade fuel than the 100/130 (or it's variants) available for the P-38L during war?
If so, is there some hard evidence (other than oral) which could be verified? Like microfilms in the NARA or something.

gripen

PS. I knew this was going be huge waste of bandwidth.

It's only a waste of bandwidth because your cranial/rectal interface has obscured your ability to comprehend simple statements which clearly define why some things will not be found in official government archives.
I told you where to find the Doolittle letter. So, get off your backside and go get it.

As to Warren commenting on overboosting R-2800 engines, the answer is yes, he does offer the recollections of the man responsible for such testing at Republic.

Oh, and by the way, you won't find that information at NARA either......

My regards,

Widewing

[bolillo_loco]

in warren bodies book "the lockheed P-38 lightning" he does make mention several times about the 1,725hp rating in the P-38L. unless I have read the book wrong and or fogotten what I have read he specifically states that the P-38L-1-LO used the same rating as the 38J ie 1,600hp@60"MAP of which 1,290 a/c were manufactured, he states that the P-38L-5-LO had the 1,725hp rating and did 440mph and that 2,200 of these a/c were manufactured from october 1944 thru june 1945. thats what bodie says.

I can only ask questions just like anybody else here. what never made any sense to me is if you look in the pilots manual and other common publications for the P-38 these inconsitancies jump out at you. consider this if you will, all books agree on these figures. P-38F 395mph on 1,325hp x 2. P-38H 402mph but at altitude the engines were restricted somewhere around the same power as the P-38F due to inner cooler limitations. if I am not mistaken the 38H only made 1,600hp up to 10,000ft and could not use 60" above that altitude. and at 25k it would be using power at or near military as maximum power, ie 1,350 to 1,425. now you look at the 38J which could make 1,600hp up to 26,400 ft. the books say it could do 414mph. it just doesnt add up to me.
395mph on 1,325hp
402mph on just a little more power
414mph on 1,600hp. I understand the J/L had a bit more drag than the H and earlier models, but it was not that excessive. what is 60 to 80lbs of drag when you have 3000+lbs of drag to begin with? it doesnt add up when you consider you have just added 400-600 more hp and you only gain 10-20mph. I am sorry, but just like usual I cannot provide any answers to the problems.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by batdog:
http://home.att.net/~Historyzone/Widewing.html

How are books written... they A: take info from OTHER books or B: they get info from the source. Widewing is saying he obtained his info from the source. Once again due to the nature of the info he gave me about ordering my book he is certainly part of, if not the main fiqure, of the publishers named widewing.  Warren Bodie is considered to be one of the best sources of info in regards to the 38 and 47 I think. I hardly think this indiv would allow a publisher to discredit or rep him if they couldnt hold thier salt.

 Oh and the term "buster" he used is a give away to his generation perhaps...

xBAT

[ 08-09-2001: Message edited by: batdog ]

Warren and I are friends, and have worked together on several magazine projects as well as assisting him in collecting data for
his many book projects. However, I am not connected with Widewing Publications in the sense that I make any decisions whatsoever. The company consists of Warren alone. Sure, he uses the talents of others, but strictly on a contract basis. We work together because our writing styles are similar and we both have extensive backgrounds in aviation history as writers and historians.
However, I cannot hope to compare my accomplishments to Warren's. He is one of the very few successful author/publishers extent. Moreover, at 78 years old, he still has a tremedous desire to write and publish.
Aviation writing is his vocation and avocation. He literally breathes aviation history. I have somewhat more diverse interests, including writing about other topics. Indeed, unlike Warren, I have hobbies completely unrelated to aviation and writing, such as competitive boxing and shooting. Warren, on the other hand, loves to tool through the mountains of North Carolina in his Jaguar XK-8. Which, need I say, is a big step up from my Miata and Subaru WRX (although the WRX is a rather potent little monster).

Some Aces High members have attempted to contact Warren via the web page I maintain for him on my web site. I have given him the ok to reply should he so desire. Those of you who wish to write Warren may do so using the online form provided. He truly relishes hearing from those who have enjoyed his books. However, Warren is a very busy man, so be patient waiting for a reply. By the way, don't write anything that you don't want me to see, because I get copies of all correspondence via the web page.  

My regards,

Widewing

AKA: Corey C. Jordan

[batdog]

Doh...I just recieved an email from the man himself      

 Okay... I'm no expert but lets thank about some common sense here. I am an ex-grunt. We were often told what to do or not to do w/equipment/weapons. This seldom stoped us from doing what was needed for the enviroment at hand. A prime example is the m60 machinegun. One will uselly keep a light film of oil on the bolt. This was ignored by myself and others in the Mojave desert in NTC and we fired our wep dry. WHY? Because sand+oil is a bad idea. The wep would fire and never lockup w/out the oil...you add oil it was jam city.

 Okay now picture this... you have some young mechnics working on their pilots planes. They hear you can do some mod's to make his machine better... and bring his bellybutton home. What are you going to do? Your going to give him his mod's especialy if a tech rep says it works.

 I dont know squat about engines, rpms, backpressure or whatever. I do KNOW a soldier will do what it bloody takes often pushing the limits on equipment and body to get the job done. Its uselly the indiv's who werent even close to being there that seem to often be the skeptics...

xBAT

[gripen]

Widewing,
Please calm down, I have not questioned if such "Doolittle memo" exist nor if some P-47Ds were modified. I questioned your claim that there were somekind of special fuel for the P-38L (which could allow those 1725hp ratings for the F30). And I also questioned that popular argument here that P-47Ds were routinedly hot rodded for above 2500hp ratings, which is clearly above physical limits of the R-2800 B-series engine.

And again, we need hard data.

gripen

[ 08-09-2001: Message edited by: gripen ]

[Hooligan]

Although it seems to me quite probable that some US aircraft had hotrodded engines, or used Doolittle's 140-150 octane fuel, I doubt very much we will see this modeled in Aces High until a reasonable body of verifiable evidence is presented.

Even unofficial modifications leave a paper trail.  Mechanics and crew chiefs write letters home and quite possibly memoirs.  If this practice was widespread then references to it will appear in the first hand accounts of the ground and aircrews involved.

Merely noting that Doolittle wrote letters containing pertanent facts is insufficient.  Information on where the letter may be obtained (i.e. pg 571 in Doolittle's autobiography or whatever...) so that HTC may obtain the letter and evaluate its content is what is required if you want them to consider changing their FMs.  If you ever want to see HTC take this stuff seriously, then a paper trail (memoirs, letters, air force documents or whatever) is going to have to be presented to them.

Hooligan

[batdog]

I would like to point out there are diff ways to measure HP. Do/did they use a standard test? I know in cars there is at least 2 places HP is often "measured"?

xBAT

[gripen]

I don't know if there was some kind of standard test, maybe inside one country but probably not globally. AFAIK testing itself was pretty much similar everywhere; dynamometer and special testing room where conditions could be adjusted.

gripen