Fw190

[bongaroo]

I flew a spixt16 the other day and felt dirty.  Only really bad SA will get you killed in it and as long as you see the tracers before you get hit you have great chances to reverse for a kill.

Spit8's and 9's are almost as easy.  Easy mode planes, realy men who have to fly british should stick to the mossies and spit5s.  At least they don't have a big "i fly easy mode" sticker slapped on the sides.

[Lusche]

LOL @ "real men" in reference to a cartoon air combat game


btw, my last tour was a British one. Didi fly lots of "easy mode" sorties. And died a lot more than my usual average

[bongaroo]

LOL @ "real men"

You've got to make them think of themselves as sissies to get them to try other planes

[Karnak]

Spits are too fragile.  I've reversed a fight and killed my attacker in Mossies, Ki-84s, Fw190s and various other aircraft after taking hits that would have simply downed the Spitfire before any reverse happened.  Yeah, yeah, SA.  Everybody slacks off at times and gets overwhelmed at others.  Well, almost everybody.

[Die Hard]

Have you actually flown every german A/C and know their limits and what they can actually do? If not then that last sentence has little credibility.

Yes I have. The only German fighter that I'm positive can hang with a Spit16 in a flat turn is the 109F-4. I don't think the 109E-4 can, but perhaps the 110C-4b. I'm not too sure about those. Other German planes that probably can hang with the Spit16 in a flat turn are the Ju 87 and (probably) the Ju 88. I used to fly the 88 quite a bit as a fighter just for fun. Difficult to get kills with that single peashooter, but it's all worth it when you get to embarrass an overconfident fighter pie-lit.

That said, a competent Spit16 driver won't turn with a 109F-4, but rather overpower it in the vertical. And in defense the Spit can always spiral climb away.

[Scherf]

Heheheh:

If you get your mossie real, real light, you can turn with Spixteens.

To the credit of the guys involved, they've expressed surprise, but not cried "Haxxorz!"

[Saurdaukar]

Got to chip in my 2 pennies here...

I am not a great 109 driver but I'm far far above average in the F4/G2. While the F4 is dominant to the spitV and the G2 to the spitIX we have anyone who thinks an F4 or G2 is dominant vs a Spit XVI hasn't ever run into a decent spixteen driver. The F4/G2 can certainly win the fight however it needs to be via a "midgame fork" that misdirects the spitty. Neither 109 can win an endgame vs the XVI. Thats just a statement of fact. Obviously pilot quality is a big factor here, most spit drivers are sadly deficient....

As for the A5, anyone who thinks that they beat a spit XVI on anything other then pilot error is delusional. Now again relative pilot skill is the big variable. I can beat about 50% (or more) of the spit/la-7 drivers in the game in a clean merge at 7k in an SBD...by contrast I'd say I can beat less then 25% of the 109/190 drivers. The reality is that those pilots have a better grasp of both ACM and plane limitations and fly a better fight.

This is valid.  Im sure that a lot of pilot ability is factoring into these arguments - at least they are for mine.

All things being equal, yes the Spit 16 is a better A/C when compared to the F4, G2 and A5.

In the MA, though, I can count the number of 16's Ive run into, that were actually piloted by good virtual sticks, on one hand.  The flat turn is usually what most end up doing, in which case the F4 has it beat.  Vertical?  Not so much.  But then, the early 109 driver shouldnt be playing that game against a late war uber-ride, anyway.

The G2 is a bit better suited to fighting a "better" stick in a 16 and less suited to a n00b stick, oddly enough.  Against a flat turn, the 16 will win.  However, with an alternating climb/dive turn and tail-heavy trim against the 16, I find that the G2 can pull guns consistently.  Even the G6 can get close due to the softer stall.

The 190A5 is an entirely different game.  I am very confident going after Spitfires in mine - especially the 8's with the reduced roll rate, but again, because most MA Spit drivers think "On" and "Off" are the only two throttle settings, a decent A5 driver can hack it with them quite nicely.

But again, as above, I don't think anyone disputes that, pilots being equal, we'd all rather be in the 16 since it, frankly speaking, outclasses the early 109's and 190's in almost every way and, with the chopped wings, even closes the 190's roll rate gap.

[humble]

No question that a well flown A5 is a handful for any plane, its got a tremendous ability to "go sushi" on you in the right hands and can be almost impossible to aggressively pursue since its got such great ability to force the overshoot. You end up either to fast to really secure a solid shot or at risk of getting so slow the 190 can claw up over you....or accepting the risk of an overshoot if you don't convert your shot.

[Saurdaukar]

...or at risk of getting so slow the 190 can claw up over you....

Which is exactly how a great, 2 minute 1v1 I had last night vs. Coog03 in his Spit8 ended.   

[MjTalon]

Just as Mazz stated. In our 190A5s, i feel comfortable fighting spitfires of any model. why? Because i have confidence in my understanding of my planes strengths, limits, and characteristics vs the enemy's aircraft. More times than likely as stated above alot of spitfires only have "Firewall" and "idle" on the throttle, which makes it super easy to cause alot of spits to overshoot, or get out of sync, with your roll rate.

[Die Hard]

Good for you. Go get'em!

[Oldman731]

No question that a well flown A5 is a handful for any plane, its got a tremendous ability to "go sushi" on you in the right hands and can be almost impossible to aggressively pursue since its got such great ability to force the overshoot. You end up either to fast to really secure a solid shot or at risk of getting so slow the 190 can claw up over you....or accepting the risk of an overshoot if you don't convert your shot.

Eh.  I'll bet not many A5s get away from you, Humble.  If you have a Batfink flying one, then you have a problem on your hands, but that's so with any plane he flys.  Unless you're in a truly inferior plane, in a significantly worse E situation, or the A5's pilot is two leagues above yours, the A5 shouldn't be a problem for most of its contemporaries.

It's sure the best of the FWs, though.

- oldman

[moot]

Best is very arguable, since all 190s do different things better than one another.  I'd say the 152 and D9 are easily the best 190s, as far as A2A is concerned.  The A5 simply doesn't have enough thrust to compete.

[Saurdaukar]

Best is very arguable, since all 190s do different things better than one another.  I'd say the 152 and D9 are easily the best 190s, as far as A2A is concerned.  The A5 simply doesn't have enough thrust to compete.

I really want to disagree with this since the A5's acceleration is so good (for its age) at and below 5K but... alas... the D9 and 152 were built for a reason... they are "better."

Either way, the A5 is just plain old more fun for me and, at the end of the day, thats what this is supposed to be about.

[moot]

An A5 with extra boost and cowl guns removed, and/or an A9 with as little ballast as possible would be competitive, I expect.